Kaliya and Seth are joined by old friend, and green data activist, Johannes Ernst (of home data server company indiecomputing.com) in a great discussion about the $Trillion dollar personal data and surveillance tech opportunities emerging from this epidemic. What can we do to trace each other’s contacts? What can we do to protect our privacy? How do we manage this tension? What is the role of Facebook among others to provide the scale necessary to enroll everybody in a pandemic protocol that won’t sacrifice their fundamental privacy values.