In this episode, Jacinta and Lachlan chat with occupational therapist and neurodiversity advocate Frances McCafferty about PDA (Pathological Demand Avoidance), autonomy, and what it means to create truly neurodiversity-affirming spaces. Frances, who founded Embrace Neurodiversity with her husband, shares her personal perspective as an autistic PDAer, what PDA actually feels like from the inside, how demands can show up in surprising ways, and why safety and choice matter so much. Frances talks about how she balances her roles as a peer researcher, therapist, and advocate — and how we, at large, can all do better to support PDAers at home, school, work, and beyond!