In this episode, Ben Watkins sits down with philosopher Dr. Erik Wielenberg in Raleigh, NC immediately after his debate with philosopher Dr. William Lane Craig at NC state University. The debate, held on February 23rd, 2018, was on the question of what better explains objective moral values and duties. Wielenberg defended a form of godless normative realism while Craig defended a modified divine command theory. The discussion surveys the arguments and responses used in the debate as well as a few other topics in philosophy of religion.