Radical Sacred

Spiritual director and author Deb Gregory joins us to explore walking as an embodied spiritual practice for discernment, especially for neurodivergent people. We discuss awe walks, Ignatian spirituality, walking together for co-regulation and trust, and finding accessible ways to listen to the body. Following these mid-term elections, may this episode be a gift to calm your nervous system.

Show Notes:

• Think, Fast and Slow - Daniel Kahneman
• Awe: The New Science of Everyday Wonder and How It Can Transform Your Life - Dacher Keltner 
• Betwixt Podcast
• Deb Gregory’s Website

Action Items

• Try a short awe walk and notice one detail that evokes wonder, such as a spiderweb, tree, or pattern in nature.
• Choose a body-based practice that feels safe today: walk with a partner, visit a labyrinth, stretch, or unwind yarn.
• Notice how your interior state changes during and after walking, including whether movement helps you discern what feels life-giving.
• If taking a break from social media, experiment without rigid rules and observe what changes in your attention and nervous system.

Chapters
01:00 Opening with Dolly Parton’s “Wildflowers”
02:53 Meet Deb Gregory and her winding path
05:20 How a broken ankle sparked walking meditations
08:14 Why the body matters in discernment
10:17 Neurodivergence and more inclusive spiritual practice
15:09 Walking, sensory overwhelm, and EMDR
18:04 Ignatian spirituality and noticing the interior life
21:12 Spiritual direction as cultivating flourishing
24:47 A simple five-minute awe walk
30:04 Accessible ways to begin moving and listening
33:02 Walking with children and letting creativity emerge
35:19 How shared steps can build co-regulation and trust
39:26 Walking as social spirituality and collective action
42:16 Deb’s work and taking a curious break from social media

This week's episode was recorded live at Wild Goose Festival 2026. We had the honor of talking with theologian and author Thomas J. Oord about a God whose power is loving influence rather than control, and how that view reshapes nurture, suffering, and faith. Oord also reflects on reconstructing belief, the cost of affirming LGBTQ+ people in his former denomination, and finding sustaining community in nature and open and relational theology.

Key Topics

• Tom Oord defines “amnipotence” as God’s all-pervasive influence through love, persuasion, and wooing, not control.
• He describes God as everlasting and responsive, and says God knows everything possible to know, while the future remains open and unknowable.
• Oord connects open and relational theology with quantum indeterminacy, evolution, and a God who changes in experience while remaining loving.
• He compares divine nurture to healthy parenting: engaged and forgiving, without being hands-off or micromanaging.
• After a period of atheism, Oord rebuilt his faith between absolute certainty and absolute mystery, drawing heavily on books and personal reflection.
• Oord explains why he stayed in the Church of the Nazarene for about 20 years as a queer-affirming presence, then describes losing his credentials and membership two years before the conversation.
• He speaks candidly about the pain, family effects, and lost hopes of church rejection, while affirming that new, supportive communities can be found.
• Nature, photography, backpacking, his film Seer, and relationships in open and relational theology are sources of spiritual nurture.
• Oord invites listeners to think courageously and humbly, and discusses writing a systematic theology of love as one response to current crises.

Chapters
00:30 Live from Wild Goose Festival and a poem on longing
02:58 Why Thomas Oord connects theology with nurture
05:47 Amnipotence: divine power as loving influence
07:25 How family and rock music shaped Oord’s view of love
10:38 Rethinking omnipotence, timelessness, and foreknowledge
13:05 Science, openness, and God’s changing experience
15:05 A nurturing God: engaged, not permissive or controlling
17:11 Reconstructing faith between certainty and mystery
20:31 Finding mentors in books and enduring church relationships
22:58 Loneliness, theological debate, and the pain of suffering
24:20 Oord’s queer affirmation and expulsion from the Church of the Nazarene
29:03 When following love brings rejection, and finding new community
31:27 Nature, photography, and spiritual renewal
33:22 The communities that sustain Oord
34:32 Courage to think differently about God
36:17 A systematic theology of love as a response to crisis
38:19 The vulnerability and freedom of open-hearted faith
40:10 Wild Goose highlights and where to find Oord’s work

In our kickoff episode for Season 4, we explore the profound concept of nurture through personal stories, spiritual reflections, and community experiences. We recorded live at the Wild Goose Festival as we discussed how nurture manifests in nature, faith, community, and self-care, emphasizing its role in growth and wholeness.

Key Topics

• The significance of nature and water as symbols of nurture
• Personal stories of nurturing from faith communities
• The importance of vulnerability and community in growth
• Reimagining nurture beyond comfort zones
• The role of intentionality in self-care and collective healing

Chapters
00:10 Introduction to the theme of nurture at Wild Goose
02:01 Connecting with nature through dew and water
05:11 The spiritual significance of nurture and Howard Thurman
09:39 Exploring collective nurturing and community support
13:58 Nature as a space for spiritual reflection and healing
18:55 What does it feel like to be truly nurtured?
22:12 Breaking up the roots: Nurture as unfolding
27:22 The role of faith communities in nurturing
34:01 The importance of spaces like Lake Michigan and wild places
37:33 Carrying the spirit of nurture into everyday life
41:11 Closing thoughts: Moving out of the rut and into nurture

Friends, today our hearts are heavy as we sift through the news about the horrible violence against women and children that is committed every day in our country and around the world. We talk with our favorite mental health professionals - Kelly Slaven and Jessica Brazeal of The Haven Wellness Center in Dallas, TX and Hillary Owen of Driftwood Healing in Santa Rosa Beach, FL about the root causes of violence against women, what we need to heal collectively, and the harm that patriarchy inflicts on men, women, children, and our planet. As bell hooks says “Feminism makes it possible for men and women to know love.” We invite you to join us in this conversation today and to invest in a future rooted in matriarchy and care for all. 


Show Notes:

• Sarah Bareilles - hands off my body
• The Haven Wellness Center in Dallas, TX
• Driftwood Healing in Santa Rosa Beach, FL
• bell hooks - The Will to Change: Men, Masculinity, and Love (email [email protected] for a copy) 
• Men who Hate Women by Laura Bates
• Gloria Steinem
• I have Some Questions for You by Rebecca Makkai
• Trauma and Recovery by Judith Herman
• Every Man: Why Violence Against Women is a Men’s Issue, and How You Can Make a Difference by Jackson Katz

Chapters
00:10 Introduction to the episode and guest contributions
03:56 Grounding through connection and creative activities
08:05 The patriarchy and bell hooks' perspective on love and maleness
12:03 The social and cultural roots of violence and groupthink
15:51 Parenting, modeling, and teaching consent and respect
19:50 The importance of belonging, community, and positive reinforcement
24:09 The socialization of children and the importance of role models
27:55 Parenting, community, and creating spaces of belonging
31:54 The importance of relationship, connection, and role modeling
35:59 The impact of social movements like Me Too and political shifts
38:03 The role of faith, religious institutions, and Christian nationalism
40:04 Challenging harmful religious and societal narratives
41:55 The importance of love, compassion, and reimagining God
44:01 Practical steps for dismantling patriarchy and fostering love
45:59 Resources and books for understanding and challenging patriarchy
47:52 The power of relationship and community in social change
49:49 The importance of intentionality and activism in everyday life
51:56 Creating spaces of belonging and love for boys and men
53:50 The role of women and marginalized groups in social transformation
55:00 Closing thoughts and call to action for listeners

Are you also feeling complex feelings about America, our history of violence as a country, our current fascist leadership, and our fear and hope for what’s to come this 4th of July? Join us as we talk to author, activist, musician and founder of Vote Common Good Doug Paggit. Doug leads us through this honest conversation on working for change together, mourning all that’s been, and building an America we can all belong to. 


Show Notes:

• Vote Common Good
• Doug Pagitt
• Esther’s Army - Katie Giddini 
• Let America be America by Langston Hughes 
• Documentary - Cross Country Bike Ride “Whose the We”

Key Topics

• Expansive view of Christianity and faith
• The role of stories in shaping identity
• Patriotism and its personal nature
• The importance of community and inclusion
• The intersection of faith and politics
• Stories of connection across political divides
• The history of America and its narratives
• The work of Vote Common Good

Chapters
00:50 Exploring Identity and Belonging in America
03:31 The Emergence of Progressive Christianity
06:43 The Divine Dance: Understanding Community and Theology
09:38 Navigating Political Identity and Faith
12:45 The Role of Ancestors and Mentorship in Activism
15:35 The Intersection of Faith and Politics
18:36 Reimagining the American Narrative
21:18 The Power of Storytelling in Social Change
23:59 Building a More Inclusive Community
26:40 The Journey of Vote Common Good
29:46 Engaging in Meaningful Conversations
32:44 The Importance of Listening and Understanding
35:15 Finding Inspiration in Historical Movements
38:11 The Collective We: Expanding Our Understanding of Community
42:00 A Modern Good Samaritan Encounter
45:23 The Dilemmas of American Identity
48:26 Navigating Political Conversations in Faith Communities
56:34 The Complexity of Patriotism
01:01:34 Embracing Diversity in American Identity

Thank you for joining us for our season 3 finale episode! We’ve had a lovely and winding 3rd season. We’ve chatted with authors, poets, scientists, naturalists, sex therapists, spiritual directors, artists and more to explore the true meaning of reciprocity. We end the season with reflection, presence, and connection. We invite you to join us over on Substack as we take a break from recording for the summer and to find us at Wild Goose Festival from September 4th-6th in Harmony North Carolina. We appreciate you dear listeners and will be back this fall with a new season, new stories, and new ways of exploring our sacred roots. It’s just the two of us here at Radical Sacred and it helps us out a lot when you rate and review the pod and share it with like minded folks! 

Show Notes: 

• Radical Sacred on Substack
• Radical Sacred on Youtube
• Radical Sacred on Instagram
• Radical Sacred at Wild Goose
• Radical Sacred Website
• Radical Sacred Sounds of Summer Playlist
• Our Lady of the Garden by Pádraig Ó Tuama

Key Topics:

• Reciprocity in nature and society
• Systemic imbalance and economic exploitation
• The role of creativity and community in social change
• Environmental sustainability and water usage
• The impact of wealth and inequality on society
• Spiritual practices and inner reflection
• The importance of vulnerability and honest community
• Imagining a world beyond capitalism
• The significance of joy and whimsy amidst chaos
• The season's journey of inward and outward reflection

Chapters
00:50 The Poetic Reflection on Life's Journey
01:56 Celebrating Season Three and Themes of Reciprocity
04:09 Exploring the Concept of Reciprocity
06:25 Reciprocity in Economic Systems and Social Services
09:15 The Impact of Wealth Disparity and Extraction Economy
10:59 Environmental Concerns and the Balance of Nature
13:03 The Call for Action and Collective Responsibility
15:13 Creativity and Individual Uniqueness in Challenging Times
20:37 Finding Joy Amidst Imbalance and Struggles
25:31 The Cycle of Life: Death and Renewal
28:45 Imagining a Better Future Through Creativity
33:26 Exploring Spirituality and Nature
37:46 The Power of Community and Reciprocity
41:06 Creative Collaboration and Vulnerability
46:09 Reflections on Meaningful Conversations
53:43 The Journey of Connection and Growth

We go on an imaginative journey with Kate Thomas, a UX strategist, visual designer, and artist who lets curiosity guide her work and her life's path. Kate’s way of being is rooted in her deep spirituality, love of nature, and enjoying the wonder of every day. What can we learn about ourselves and the holiness that calls to us when we take time to listen to the quiet still voice within and to follow the sound of our own genuine? We invite you into creativity, yearning, and honoring your sacred time and your sacred self in this lovely episode with the lovely Creative Kate. 


Show Notes:

• Figma
• Sabrina Ward Harrison
• Art Farm in Annapolis
• Creative Kate Website
• @thiscreativekate : check out her pinned post about creating pockets of hope
• Morning Poem by Mary Oliver 
• Wild Goose Festival 

Key Topics

• Kate's journey from graphic design to UX and art coaching
• The role of curiosity and play in creativity
• Using art as a spiritual and self-discovery practice
• The metaphor of compost and chaos in growth and renewal
• The importance of boredom and silence in creativity
• Connecting with nature and spiritual practices

Chapters
00:30 Morning Reflections: The Power of Poetry
02:00 Introducing Kate Thomas: A Journey of Creativity
08:45 The Role of Art in Childhood and Self-Discovery
13:23 Curiosity as a Guiding Force
20:22 Listening to the Sound of the Genuine
22:30 Navigating Work-Life Balance and Creative Expression
30:16 Faith and Upbringing: The Roots of Creativity
34:56 The Importance of Boredom and Imagination
43:39 Finding Beauty in Chaos: The Compost Metaphor
49:13 Future Endeavors: Eco-Grief and Community Engagement

On this special Father’s Day episode of Radical Sacred we have the immense privilege of talking to Rev. William Lamar about his beautiful new book Ancestors: Those who Bless us, Curse us, and Hold us. Rev. Lamar talks to us about the importance of intimately knowing and calling upon our ancestors, the perfect memory that water holds, how to listen to the still small voice within us, and the importance of silence, nature, and music. Sitting with Bill for this episode was a profound blessing and we always leave our time with him awake, aware, and more alive. We invite you to check out this fabulous episode and dive deep into the ancestors inviting you back to your truest selves. 


Show Notes:

• Ancestors: Those who Bless us, Curse us, and Hold us by William Lamar
• Metropolitan African Methodist Episcopal Church in Washington, DC
• I am my Ancestors’ by TaRessa Stovall
• The DC Church that beat the Proud Boys in Court now Owns Their Name

Key Topics

• The biblical transfiguration story as a metaphor for ancestral engagement
• Water as a symbol of perfect memory and spiritual renewal
• The internal journey of self-discovery and internal cartography
• The role of music and storytelling in connecting with ancestors
• Resurrection as a cosmic and ecological process of renewal

Chapters
00:30 The Legacy of Ancestors
02:56 Introduction to Reverend William H. Lamar IV
05:41 The Importance of Ancestors in Faith
07:29 Writing the Book: A Personal Journey
11:19 The Transfiguration and Ancestral Connections
16:00 Water as a Symbol of Memory
22:18 The Role of Music in Spiritual Life
28:05 Distraction and the Inner Music
33:16 Finding Connection in Nature
42:22 Bumping Into Oneself: The Inward Journey
47:06 The Role of Ancestors in Our Lives
54:56 Living Resurrection: A Poetic Invitation
01:05:44 Father's Day Reflections and Ancestral Connections

In this timely episode we visit with the author of Strangers in the Province of Joy: Practicing Radical Hospitality at the US-Mexico Border, Mary Fontana. While in college Mary began a 20+ year relationship with Annunciation House in El Paso which houses and provides care for migrants. This book is all about the important work of Annunciation House, its surprising and tender beginnings, and about the root causes that lead to people leaving their home countries. We talk about liberation theology, the United States complicity in the instability in Central America, and what we can all do to better love our neighbor as ourselves.  


Show Notes:

• Strangers in the Province of Joy: Practicing Radical Hospitality at the US-Mexico Border 
• Mary Fontana’s Website 
• Annunciation House 
• A Prayer of Shelter and Shadow by Pádraig ó Tuama

Key Topics:

• The origins and history of Annunciation House
• The concept of radical hospitality and its importance
• Root causes of migration including US foreign policy and climate change
• The role of personal relationships and presence in service work
• The intersection of faith, justice, and activism in immigration
• The ongoing legal challenges faced by organizations like Annunciation House
• The importance of education and awareness in changing perceptions
• The spiritual and contemplative practices that sustain service work

Chapters
00:30 A Prayer for Shelter and Community
02:35 Introducing Mary Fontana and Her Work
05:15 The Role of Annunciation House
10:02 Understanding Borders: Geographic and Internal
13:08 Migration as an Earth Right
17:52 Root Causes of Migration
22:07 Climate Change and Migration
26:51 The Politics of Immigration and Othering
31:39 Emergency Response and Human Connection
34:17 The Founders' Wisdom and Open-Heartedness
38:55 The Role of Contemplation in Service
43:56 Balancing Presence and Productivity
48:49 Justice and Mercy in Hospitality
52:10 Spreading Awareness Through Storytelling
54:15 Radical Hospitality Defined
58:57 Facing Political Challenges with Resilience

We enjoyed this fabulous conversation with Stephen Lazarus! Stephen is the Literary Manager for the Henri Nouwen Legacy Trust and the editor of Encountering Henri: The Living Legacy of Henri Nouwen. We visit about how earnestly and honestly Henri Nouwen lived his life and how impactful and invitational his way of being was. We invite you to live fully and in the spirit of Henri today and everyday! “It is by being awake to God in us that we can increasingly see God in the world around us.” 
Show Notes

• Encountering Henri: The Living Legacy of Henri Nouwen 
• Cardus NexGen program
• Henry Nouwen Legacy Trust
• Comment Magazine
• Robert and Margaret Jonas - Reviving Creation

Substack

• Check out Jenny's weekly reflection on the episode on our Substack.

Key Topics

• Henry Nowen's impact on spiritual life
• The concept of woundedness and healing
• Divine invitations and unexpected encounters
• Henry Nowen's influence on peacemaking and justice
• The importance of authentic identity in faith

Chapters
00:30 The Poetic Introduction to Love
02:38 Introducing Stephen Lazarus and His Journey
04:37 Encountering Henry Nowen: A Personal Connection
08:06 Who Was Henry Nowen?
10:04 The Humanity of Henry Nowen
16:00 Divine Invitations Through Henry's Work
20:47 The Communion of Saints and Connection to Ancestors
24:13 Contemplating Memories of Henry
28:47 Surprising Stories from the Book
30:37 Embracing Our Imperfections
34:25 Awakening to the Divine
34:59 The Meandering Path to Home
39:21 Engaging with the Common Good
43:55 Wounded vs. Broken: A Theological Perspective
49:03 Finding Identity in a Polarized World