Rand Fishkin, one of the co-founders of the software company Moz, shares controversial stories of pushing through product changes, thoughts on guerrilla research, and opinions on the intersection of money and helping users. Moz is a company that creates software for marketing professionals, with a primary focus on SEO. This episode was recorded a few weeks ago, before Rand left the company.

Rand has a reputation for being one of the most honest and transparent people in business. In our interview, we’ll be discussing two different situations where Rand pushed through changes to a product without following the proper process, in an effort to put users first and make the product more user-friendly. Did he make the right choice? That’s up to you to decide after you hear what Rand has to say.

In addition, we’ll be talking about the importance of curiosity, and how natural curiosity about how users are experiencing a product can result in guerilla research that can be used to improve the product. We’ll also discuss quick wins and why Rand believes that you don’t have to make a choice between making money and helping people, because the two are directly tied to each other. Tune in to hear the whole episode and get a book recommendation from Rand.

Show notes:

• [00:02:26] Moz’s Keyword Explorer tool, and the usability problems that users were experiencing with it
• [00:06:29] How Rand pushed through a solution for the Keyword Explorer usability problems
• [00:08:02] The Keyword Explorer tool’s metrics, and how they were causing confusion for users
• [00:10:18] What Rand did to push through a fix for the problem that was creating confusion about the Keyword Explorer tool’s metrics
• [00:12:36] How Rand identified the initial usability problems with the Keyword Explorer tool
• [00:15:32] How Rand would advise other people to identify their potential customers and reach out to them for insights
• [00:18:04] Why Rand thinks it took so long to get needed changes made to a product
• [00:20:07] Rand’s thoughts on quick wins
• [00:21:49] The tool Moz used that showed the increase in usage after the first change
• [00:22:47] Rand on why he believes that it’s process and structures that prevent needed changes that would help users, not bad people
• [00:25:19] Why helping users helps ensure that you’ll make more money and your business will be more successful, so there’s no need to choose between helping people and making money
• [00:27:22] Resources that Rand recommends