Divine dictation of fully-formed books, or a gradual evolution of texts at the hands of authors, editors, interpreters, redactors, copyists, collectors, ……?

This will be the first of several episodes we’re hauling out of our Podcast Archive that are related to how we came to have this collection of books we call the Bible. This week, Dr. Peter Enns gets us started with a look at the origin … and evolution! …. of the Jewish Bible, our “Old Testament”.  We’re guessing that many of our listeners will be hearing this perspective for the first time.  But hearing this, from a world-class expert, might help you over some serious speedbumps in your faith journey.  It certainly did that for me.

We’ll hear that the Bible was not dropped out of heaven or whispered into the ears of individual authors (you probably knew that already … but did you have a coherent alternative explanation of where/how it did come?).  Instead, it was written, and re-written, and revised, and re-revised by teams of authors over the course of many, many centuries.  Yes: re-written and re-revised.  And not just by the individual authors, but by multiple teams of editors who worked on the texts centuries after the authors had died. Those later editorial teams took the liberty of not just changing words, but even deleting whole sections, and inserting entirely new ones.  Sometimes in response to things they’d learned from other cultures. A perfect example of this would be their understanding of the human soul and the afterlife, which we talked about previously in episodes #6, #7, and #8. Those editors could be just as divinely inspired in what they did, as the authors writing the first drafts of the text. And the life experiences which shaped those authors and editors  — as well as the cultural zeitgeists which informed their thinking — would also be part of that divine inspiration process.

Learning about these things over the past couple decades has given me a new understanding of the Bible.  I no longer see it like the “User’s Manual” for a car, written by the Manufacturer [God] to the User [us] to help them [us] know how to use the Product [us].  Instead, I now see it more like a diary or a notebook, written by humans who captured their thoughts, experiences, the lessons they’d learned, and their personal growth on a subject that was incredibly important to them: God. 

As always, tell us what you think …

For more about Dr. Pete Enns, go to The Bible for Normal People podcast, or listen to our other recent interview with Pete, asking him to tell the story of his own faith deconstruction and the response to that from the Evangelical world.

If you enjoyed this episode, you may also like our episode on the origin of the New Testament (episode #81), or on Divine Inspiration (episode #101), or a deep-dive into an Old Testament story of “a Divine command” given to the Israelites to slaughter their own brothers (episode #98).

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A new understanding of the ancient story of Israel’s exodus out of Egypt leads to a whole new understanding of the Passover … and of the crucifixion!

In this episode, Scott and Luke look back on the two recent re-releases — both challenging the traditional “Sunday school version” of the Exodus story — to address a few loose ends:

As always, tell us what you think …

If you enjoyed this episode, you may also like:

We also highly recommend you read Dr. Richard Friedman’s book Who Wrote the Bible?

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Science now makes the Sunday School version of this story no longer tenable, leaving three options for believers: ignore the problem, reject the Bible, or revise one’s theology.

The story of “the Exodus” has traditionally been seen to involve millions of Israelites following Moses out of Egypt: this image is derived from a literal reading of the Old Testament, with more than a little help from Cecil B. DeMille’s iconic movie. However, scholars have given us several other versions of this story which are much, MUCH smaller in scale and quite different in many of the details … and which are much more believable, especially given that they’re based on actual data (archaeological; literary; genetic). This puts many believers in a difficult position: setting aside what they see/saw as the Biblical version forces them to devalue the Bible and possibly to reject their faith. In this episode, we talk about why the “Sunday School version” is really no longer tenable, and how to revise one’s theology to accommodate that paradigm shift. Discussion points included:

As always, tell us your thoughts on this topic …

If you enjoyed this episode, you may also like Episode #57 (the writing of the Old Testament), #101 (Divine Inspiration), #112 (Passover as the context for Christ’s death on the cross), #19 and #20 (Atonement Theory), #15 (how ancient Jews understood things so differently from us today).

Movie promotional image from Paramount Pictures (and modified).

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Although the origin story for Jews, and the foundation for much of Christian theology, many scholars will ask: did it really happen (that way)?

Moses leading the newly-born nation of Israel out of slavery in Egypt, wandering through the desert for 40 years, and taking possession of Canaan is an iconic story. Not only is it the central national origin story for Jews, but it also forms the foundation for a great deal of essential Christian theology: the Passover, with its images of lamb’s blood smeared on the front doors to ward off death and judgment, and announce salvation and liberation … the giving of the Ten Commandments and the entire Levitical law … establishing a new religious system … the journey to the Promised Land. These are all themes that are picked up later in the New Testament, and provide the context for Jesus’ mission and death on the cross. For this reason, this story of the Exodus of Israel out of Egypt is a staple for Christian Sunday School curricula and sermons alike.

But many modern scholars will ask a very unsettling question: did it really happen?

To explore this, we talked to Dr. Richard Elliott Friedman, a scholar of ancient Israelite history with impeccable credentials (Harvard; Oxford; Cambridge; University of Haifa [Israel]; UCSD). Points that we talked about include:

As always, tell us your thoughts on this topic …

… and check out our archive of previously released episodes, listed chronologically, or thematically, or by guest expert.

Find more information about Dr. Richard Elliott Friedman at his personal web-site.

If you enjoyed this episode, you may also enjoy Episode #57, in which we interviewed Dr. Peter Enns about the origin and writing of the Old Testament, or Episode #80, in which Dr. Aren Maier tells us about the origin and evolution of Judaism and the nation of Israel.

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Last week we said this “mind-virus” could end up destroying the planet; this week we explain the three biggest reasons why/how.

Last week’s episode title claimed “Dispensationalism” could end up destroying our planet, but we never really fully explained how: here, we fill in that fundamentally important gap.

Our guest is the perfect expert for this.  Dr. Daniel Hummel has a Master’s and PhD degrees in Christian History, which included two years spent in Jerusalem at the Rothberg International School combing their government archives for anything pertaining to the relationship between American Evangelicals and Zionists, after which he lectured in History and Public Policy at Harvard University.  Then he took up a university faculty position as well as the Directorship of The Lumen Center, a privately-funded community of scholars reconnecting Christian thought and the academic disciplines through writing, teaching, and public engagement.  And he has published two books on the subject of Dispensationalism in America and the relationship between Evangelicalism and Christian Zionism. 

Could we have gotten a better expert?

We first unpacked those two books he’s written: Covenant Brothers: Evangelicals, Jews, and U.S.-Israeli Relations … and, The Rise and Fall of Dispensationalism: How the Evangelical Battle over the End Times Shaped a Nation. It will take up too much text space to summarize everything we discussed here.  Suffice to say, we covered Evangelicalism, Zionism, Dispensationalism, the Prosperity Gospel, American politics and military involvement in the Middle East, Dominionism, End Times theology (of the Left Behind variety), Apocalypticism, climate change and ecological/environmental collapse.

And again, the main goal was to highlight why Dispensationalism is so dangerous.  Luke likened that worldview to a virus — “a mind-virus” — that has been getting increasingly virulent.  It first infected John Nelson Darby, who spread it within his small Plymouth Brethren community.  The virus mutated into a more virulent form within Cyrus I. Scofield, who then spread it throughout the Evangelical community via his immensely popular Scofield Reference Bible (even though he had no credentialed training in Biblical hermeneutics).  Many Christians worldwide are now driven by this virus, including political and military leaders, even though they may not recognize the word “Dispensationalsm.” In fact, aspects of it can even be recognized by/within non-believing, secular people, and it may have infected Western society in general!

So, how can we make these claims? Why is this word … this mind-virus … so dangerous?  We highlighted three major sets of symptoms of its infection.

First, an inordinate amount of attention on the geopolitics of Israel and an urge to “bless Israel” by any means.  This is based on an overly literal wording of the book of Revelation and a few other passages, and a prophetic vision of armies from all nations of the world engaged in conflict over that small piece of real estate.  There are some who would even hope to put a lit match to this powder-keg in order to accelerate the prophesied second coming of Christ. It’s a self-fulfilling prophecy!

Second, a callous attitude towards environmental and ecological collapse because, following that second coming of Christ and subsequent Armageddon — which Dispensationalists are convinced “is gonna’ happen any day now!” — Earth will be tossed into the Lake of Fire.  So why get animated about global warming, climate change, species extinction, or even pollution in general?  Drill, baby, drill!  It’s all gonna’ burn anyway, right?  (I myself actually thought that forty years ago!)  Once again, some would even welcome these global calamities because those herald the second coming of Christ.  As Sean Hannity said: “If [the world] really [is] gonna’ end in 12 years, to hell with it all!  Let’s have one big party for the last 10 years, and then we’ll all go home and see Jesus.”

And third, this virus may have acquired the ability to “species-jump” in that it may now be infecting non-believers in Western Society in general!  Evangelical End Times thinking may be stoking the fires of apocalyptic Doomsday thinking in the Western zeitgeist, as evidenced by all the books and movies and podcasts about the End of the World, the stock market collapse, the coming Zombie Apocalypse, the inevitable Great Pandemic(s), World War III, and alien invasion(s).

Other dangers that we didn’t dwell upon include the trail of religious trauma and opportunity costs which have followed the Left Behind series of books/movies and the belief that “Jesus is coming back any day now.”  We previously focused on the religious trauma in episodes 106-109.  As for the opportunity costs, Luke gave his own personal example of almost making the decision forty years ago to not go to university or get married because “why bother, we’re only gonna’ be here for a couple more years anyway.”

Dangerous indeed!

As always, tell us your thoughts on this topic …

If you enjoyed this episode, you might want to check out our mini-series focusing on “the End Times,” starting at episode #106.

If you want to find out more about our guest, check out his personal web-page, which also has links to his webpages at the university and at the Lumen Center, and his two books on this topic.

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Very few have heard of “Dispensationalism,” and fewer could give a paragraph-length definition of it, and yet it saturates Evangelical thinking and influences much of what is in the news headlines today

Are you aware of the common thread that ties together the following diverse list of things:

All of these are connected by one thing: Dispensationalism.  The latter belief system has shaped the theology, values, and worldview of a very large fraction of Christians, particularly American Evangelicals, and is a major driving force behind their prominence in the news headlines today.  And yet a vast majority of people, including many Christians, have never heard of “Dispensationalism”: even those who would claim to have heard of it would be unable to give a short paragraph-length definition of what the word means. 

Next week, we want to explore how Dispensationalism is not just an American phenomenon …. or an American problem …. and why many people feel that it jeopardizes the very future of our planet (its adherents are committed to a self-fulfilling prophecy of global destruction).  But before we get into those deeper waters, we need to give this quick 101 Introduction to that theological construct: its origin, time-line, dimensions, and footprint. 

We spoke to Eric Scot English, who has training in philosophy and Christian theology and history, about his recently released book: The Kingdom of Man: Evangelicalism and the Distortion of Christianity.  Some of the distortions that we talked about include: Christian Nationalism, Christian Zionism, Dominionism, the Kingdom Identity movement, the doctrine of Manifest Destiny, and even the Prosperity Gospel.

Enjoy!

Find more information about Eric at his blog-page or at Patheos.com. His most recent book is available at Amazon.com

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A retrospective on how well we achieved our goals for this season, and pondering whether we need to do some re-branding before the next!?

August is a busy time of year for us: vacations … road-trips … and getting ready for the return to teaching responsibilities at the university.  And for that reason, we have typically gone on hiatus between August and February (when my teaching load is done).  This year will be no exception.

In today’s episode, Scott and I look back over Season Six, and ask ourselves if we met the goal we set for this it: of giving listeners strategies, tools, information, and examples to help  deconstruct a  traditional Christian  world view that doesn’t work seem to work very well anymore in the 21st century,  and to find a way to another form of Christian belief that does.

And then we turned ourselves around 180 degrees and looked to what might be coming down the pipeline if/when we do re-boot in the new year.  We wondered if it might be time to re-brand. 

For example, should we change the name: do we still want to refer to ourselves as Evangelicals (albeit “Recovering” Evangelicals)?  It seems that that label has been irretrievably tarnished by one particular faction within the Evangelical camp, and to use “Recover” as an active verb may be a hopeless cause. Or do we lean more heavily into “Recovering” as an adjective, and continue to create a safe space for those who are in rehab?

And if we take the latter mind-set, do we focus on listeners who are moving further down the “slippery slope” or reconfigure the podcast to make it more friendly …. less daunting ….. to new listeners who are only just beginning to ask hard questions of their own traditional Christian faiths, and haven’t yet gone as far down the path as the rest of us have done.  In a way, it’s similar to the conundrum that many churches  have found themselves in over the past couple decades: “do we go traditional, or contemporary, or try to do some kind of hybrid that targets both” (which rarely works well).

If you have any wisdom to give us on those questions, we enthusiastically welcome your input.

Until that time, stay tuned.  We don’t expect to go completely silent over the next few months.  There will be a  couple episodes that are already in progress and will be released over the next few weeks.  And we’ll keep our eyes on the news headlines and the book publisher’s releases, looking for any particular events or new book releases that merit a quick episode here or there.  If you subscribe, you’ll get an automatic notice of whenever a new episode is released.

Otherwise, check out our Episode Archive through these three links that list all our previous episodes chronologically, thematically, or by guest experts.  A majority of our previous episodes fall into the category of being “ever-green” …. you can listen to them years later and they’re still current.   I mean, we’ve tackled theological questions that have had scholars talking and authors writing for centuries, so a few years is not going to take the shine off those episodes!?

Thanks for listening.  And stay tuned!

As always, tell us your thoughts on this topic …

If you enjoyed this episode, you may also like our collection of other episodes in which we look at a series of releases and try to extract a few general themes to help in re-building a new Christian worldview.

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Although Christians may say that “Jesus was fully human and fully divine,” many of them tend to slow-pedal the first half of that fundamental tenet.

A fundamental Christian belief is that Jesus was fully human and yet fully divine. But for many, including us at Recovering Evangelicals, this tenet raises all kinds of questions and problems.  In fact, Christians have wrestled with that idea for two thousand years: this is NOT a new problem!

In this episode, we’re putting a spotlight on the first part of that belief statement: that he was fully human.  Some Christians don’t like to do this: they feel a need to keep his divinity front and center.  But our guest today — Dr. Daniel Kirk — thinks we lose quite a bit when we do this.  And he’s written a book to explain why: A Man Attested by God: The Human Jesus of the Synoptic Gospels.

We first explore the many lines of evidence in the Bible of his full humanity:

In the second half of our conversation, we discuss why some Christians (often Evangelicals) get so uncomfortable about emphasizing his humanity, as well as why Dr. Kirk finds so much value in doing exactly that.

As always, tell us your thoughts on this topic …

Find more information about Dr. Daniel Kirk at Patheos, and his books at Amazon.

If you enjoyed this episode, you may also like two previous episodes in which we explored Jesus as the Jewish Messiah (#82) and as the cosmic Christ (#83).

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It’s time to revise our picture of human origins, and the theology built up around the one handed down to us by authors and church fathers who knew nothing about our hominid cousins.

This is the final episode of our miniseries looking at the impact that scientific discoveries over the past couple centuries of our hominid ancestors might have on Christian theology.  It needs to be recognized that none …. NONE ….. of the Biblical authors, nor the characters they write about, nor any of the church fathers who unpacked Christian theology over the centuries after the Bible was written … NONE of them knew about human evolution, about millions and billions of years, about our hominid cousins with whom we interbred and interacted, nor about the spiritual journey that we … and possibly also those cousins … have been on for the past many hundreds of thousands of years.  It’s time that we updated the picture.

The four episodes which preceded this one have raised many questions.  Today, we’ve distilled those many questions down to five broad categories and brought in a world-class theologian (Dr. Douglas F. Ottati) to help us explore how to reconfigure Christian faith to accommodate that new information that was completely unavailable to the Biblical authors and Church Fathers.  Those five are:

As always, tell us your thoughts on this topic …

Find more information about Dr. Ottati at his institutional web-page, and his many books at Amazon; you may also want to check out our previous conversation with him a few months ago.

Episode image by Andrew. Thanks Andrew!

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A committed secular humanist, two Christians (and a Jewish rabbi) compare perspectives on their agreed claim that human morality has been on the upswing.

A year ago, we did an episode with a Jewish rabbi and scholar — Dr. and Rabbi Bradley Shavit Artson — exploring the claim that human morality has been trending upwards, in large part due to a Judeo-Christian influence on modern Western society: that we’ve been climbing the evolutionary ladder, not just in a biological and cognitive sense, but also in a moral and ethical sense.  A lot of people really struggle with that claim, largely because they look at headlines in the newspapers and say: “You’ve got to be kidding me!”

Another leading scholar who’s very skeptical and resistant to religion — Dr. Michael Shermer — made the same claim about human morality, although he believes science and reason are the driving force behind the increase (and very much plays down any positive contributions from religion). 

We thought it would be fun, and enlightening, to compare notes with Dr. Shermer.

One of the points that we agreed on is that news headlines can be very misleading if you’re trying to find a trend: those are snapshots in a very dynamic situation, very much like the daily status of the stock market. In Michael’s words: “three steps forward but two steps back.”  You need to look at the overall trend.  It’s like compound interest.  Even historical retrospectives looking back over a few centuries are too myopic.

We discussed a variety of scientific and political developments and societal factors which are contributing to this trend and the volatility masking it:

In the end, we also seemed to agree that both science and religion can create problems, and solve problems.  Getting past our turbulent status quo will require cooperation between religion and science … Christians and secular humanists … humans of all stripes.  It’s a choice that we have to make: a determined decision backed by resolve.  And so, on that note, we also talked about hard determinism versus free will (or free won’t!?).

As always, tell us your thoughts on this topic …

Find more information about Michael Shermer at michaelshermer.com/

If you enjoyed this episode, you really should check out our previous episode on the same question: “#162: “Bending the arc of the moral universe.”

“Bending the moral arc of justice” image by Andrew, and modified. Thanks Andrew!

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