The former Governor of California oversaw the world's fifth largest economy for sixteen years, ran three times for the Democratic nomination for President of the United States, and over the course of his public life has known every president from John F. Kennedy to Donald Trump.

In this interview with James Naughtie, Jerry Brown reflects on the importance of limits in the Jesuitical and Buddhist traditions, and how he took that idea into politics; on how his views on forgiveness informed his decisions to commute the sentences of people on California's Death Row; and on why if, in his words, you believe that inclination of the soul is to sin "you have to be somewhat sceptical about politics".

Producer: Giles Edwards.