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What's the real cost of being "nice" in a world that demands it? Amira Barger joins us for a transformative conversation about breaking free from the harmful constraints of niceness to embrace what she calls "nerve" – the courage to speak truth, set boundaries, and challenge broken systems.

Amira shares a powerful childhood story that perfectly illustrates the communication disconnects we experience daily. She introduces the matching principle, explaining how misaligned conversation types (practical, emotional, and social) create friction in our interactions. This framework sets the stage for understanding why niceness, though seemingly harmless, actually taxes our humanity, dignity, and voice.

The heart of our discussion explores practical tools for developing nerve without sacrificing kindness. Amira's creative journal exercise offers a simple yet profound method for perspective-shifting and challenging "sacred cows" – those untouchable rules, leaders, and habits we're taught never to question. This intentional pause creates space for reimagining how we communicate and operate in the world.

We dive deep into the nuances of self-presentation, where Amira offers a refreshing alternative to "authenticity" with her concept of the "chosen" or "aligned" self. This strategic approach acknowledges that not all spaces equally reward authenticity while still honoring our core values and boundaries. It's about claiming autonomy over how we show up rather than contorting ourselves to meet others' expectations.

For anyone who's ever felt the weight of playing nice at their own expense, this episode offers liberation and practical guidance. Amira's forthcoming book (releasing October 28, 2025) promises to expand on these concepts with relatable stories and actionable strategies for practicing nerve in everyday life.

https://amirabarger.com/

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Disclaimer: The information provided in this podcast is for general informational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. The co-hosts of this podcast are not medical professionals. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on this podcast. Reliance on any information provided by the podcast hosts or guests is solely at your own risk.

Pamela Cass is a licensed broker with Kentwood Real Estate
Natalie Davis is a licensed broker with Keller Williams Realty Downtown, LLC

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Have you ever swallowed your truth to keep the peace? Felt the exhaustion of maintaining a "nice" facade when you wanted to speak honestly? You're not alone.

Join us for a thought-provoking conversation with Amira K.S. Barger, Executive Vice President and Global Head of DEI Advisory at Edelman. Amira shares her remarkable journey from growing up as a minister's daughter on the tiny island of Guam to becoming a powerhouse in strategic communications, particularly within healthcare environments.

At the heart of our discussion is Amira's upcoming book, "The Price of Nice: Why Comfort Keeps Us Stuck and Four Actions for Real Change." Through a pivotal childhood story about hair braiding gone wrong, Amira reveals how being told "that's not nice" taught her the painful lesson that politeness often trumps truth – even when that truth could prevent harm. "No matter how right you are or how true the thing is," she observes, "if it makes someone uncomfortable, you are the problem."

Amira's expertise in behavioral communications illuminates how "words shape worlds" – not just a catchy phrase but a profound reality that influences how we move through professional and personal spaces. Drawing from psychology, sociology, and anthropology, she crafts messages that move people to action, demonstrating the powerful intersection of art and science in effective communication.

For anyone who's felt trapped by expectations of niceness or struggled to reconcile authenticity with social acceptance, this conversation offers validation and a pathway forward. Discover how breaking free from the prison of pleasantness might be your key to unlocking greater impact, deeper connections, and a more fulfilling life.

More About Amira Barger
Price of Nice

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Disclaimer: The information provided in this podcast is for general informational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. The co-hosts of this podcast are not medical professionals. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on this podcast. Reliance on any information provided by the podcast hosts or guests is solely at your own risk.

Pamela Cass is a licensed broker with Kentwood Real Estate
Natalie Davis is a licensed broker with Keller Williams Realty Downtown, LLC

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In this deeply personal episode, Natalie and Pam discuss Pam's transformative experience during a three-day virtual silent retreat, exploring how disconnecting completely opened doors to profound inner clarity and emotional release.

• Pam shares Rumi's powerful poem "The Guest House" which served as a guiding philosophy for welcoming all emotions
• The physical and emotional challenges of transitioning into complete silence, including physical symptoms that arose as part of the clearing process
• How movement meditation helped break through energetic blocks when traditional sitting meditation became difficult
• The jarring contrast between the peaceful silence of retreat and the bombardment of notifications when returning to normal life
• Discussion about how morning routines might need evolution as our spiritual practices deepen
• Practical advice for listeners interested in exploring silence, from full retreats to small periods of intentional disconnection

If you want to learn more about what's happening in the world of Reignite Resilience, head on over to reigniteresilience.com or follow us on Facebook or Instagram.

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Disclaimer: The information provided in this podcast is for general informational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. The co-hosts of this podcast are not medical professionals. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on this podcast. Reliance on any information provided by the podcast hosts or guests is solely at your own risk.

Pamela Cass is a licensed broker with Kentwood Real Estate
Natalie Davis is a licensed broker with Keller Williams Realty Downtown, LLC

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What happens when a self-proclaimed chatterbox commits to three days of complete silence? In this vulnerable and eye-opening episode, co-host Pam Kass shares her journey through a silent meditation retreat that transformed her perspective on self-worth, connection, and being.

"I am going to burst into flames," Pam repeatedly told herself before the retreat, certain she couldn't survive without talking, writing, reading, or even doing simple chores. The initial hours proved challenging as her internal dialogue grew louder in the silence. But as the retreat progressed, something unexpected happened—visual phenomena began appearing during meditation sessions, starting with deep purples forming eye-like shapes that eventually transformed into beautiful kaleidoscopic patterns of pink and blue.

The most profound moment came when the retreat guide posed a question that brought Pam to tears: "If you can believe yourself to be everything, what are the conditions to being that?" This simple query unlocked a powerful realization about the countless conditions we place on our own worthiness and value. Through Rumi's concept of being both "the drop in the ocean and the ocean in the drop," Pam discovered a new perspective on connection and belonging that transcends the ego-driven narratives we typically live by.

Whether you're curious about meditation retreats, struggling with questions of self-worth, or simply interested in what happens when we finally stop the constant noise of modern life, this episode offers insights that may inspire your own journey inward. Have you ever wondered what you might discover if you gave yourself permission to simply be? Listen now and consider what conditions you might be ready to release.

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Disclaimer: The information provided in this podcast is for general informational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. The co-hosts of this podcast are not medical professionals. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on this podcast. Reliance on any information provided by the podcast hosts or guests is solely at your own risk.

Pamela Cass is a licensed broker with Kentwood Real Estate
Natalie Davis is a licensed broker with Keller Williams Realty Downtown, LLC

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Resilience isn't just about surviving adversity—it's about discovering purpose and authenticity through life's most challenging moments. Marilyn's remarkable journey exemplifies this transformation as she shares how becoming a mother at sixteen became not a setback but part of her divine purpose.

The conversation takes an extraordinary turn when Marilyn recounts what she describes as the greatest miracle of her life: strangers mysteriously appearing at her mother's home with information that would reunite her with her long-lost son. This divine intervention came after she had made peace with never having a relationship with him, showing how surrender sometimes precedes unexpected blessings.

Her professional path reveals equal measures of determination and integrity. As one of few women in carpenter school, Marilyn persevered despite her husband's initial opposition and abuse. When faced with sexual harassment from a supervisor who offered promotion in exchange for inappropriate behavior, she stood firm in her boundaries—choosing dignity over advancement. These experiences shaped her understanding that resilience sometimes means refusing to compromise your values, even at personal cost.

Through personal development work, Marilyn learned to examine her patterns and cultivate authentic self-awareness. "You gotta like you," she emphasizes, identifying self-acceptance as foundational to resilience. Now retired and building a life coaching practice, she helps individuals and organizations clear away obstacles to effectiveness by focusing on authentic purpose and commitment.

What makes Marilyn's perspective so powerful is her ability to reframe challenges: "Most things that start off negative in my life, if you look close enough, there's a rainbow." This wisdom invites us all to look beyond immediate difficulties toward the hidden opportunities they contain.

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Disclaimer: The information provided in this podcast is for general informational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. The co-hosts of this podcast are not medical professionals. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on this podcast. Reliance on any information provided by the podcast hosts or guests is solely at your own risk.

Pamela Cass is a licensed broker with Kentwood Real Estate
Natalie Davis is a licensed broker with Keller Williams Realty Downtown, LLC

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From a turbulent childhood with an alcoholic father to becoming a successful leader and grandmother of 17, Marilyn Dogan's life epitomizes resilience in its purest form. Her candid conversation with hosts Natalie and Pamela reveals how our darkest moments can become the foundation for extraordinary growth.

Marilyn's story begins at age 16 when she found herself pregnant and faced the heart-wrenching decision to give her baby up for adoption. This choice set her on a path of independence as she left home at 17 to escape dysfunction, determined to create a different life despite seemingly insurmountable obstacles. With unflinching honesty, she reveals how unresolved trauma led her to unconsciously replicate unhealthy patterns; including entering an abusive marriage similar to her parents' relationship.

The conversation takes a powerful turn as Marilyn shares her transformation through the Landmark Forum, which helped her process her past and envision a different future. This became the catalyst for remarkable achievements: becoming the first Black woman to attend carpentry school in Houston, rising to vice president of operations in her father's business, and eventually serving as an executive director at the YMCA where she could impact young lives facing circumstances similar to her own past struggles.

What makes Marilyn's journey so compelling is how she transformed adversity into purpose. "A lot of times the adversities in our life fuel what God has in store for us later down the road," she reflects. Now with three homes, 17 grandchildren, and six great-grandchildren, her life stands as testament to the power of acknowledging trauma without letting it define you.

Whether you're facing your own challenges or supporting someone through theirs, this conversation offers profound wisdom about breaking generational patterns and creating a life of meaning despite difficult beginnings. As Marilyn puts it, "God takes our mistakes and makes them into masterpieces." Subscribe now to hear more stories that will reignite your own resilience in the face of life's challenges.

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Disclaimer: The information provided in this podcast is for general informational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. The co-hosts of this podcast are not medical professionals. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on this podcast. Reliance on any information provided by the podcast hosts or guests is solely at your own risk.

Pamela Cass is a licensed broker with Kentwood Real Estate
Natalie Davis is a licensed broker with Keller Williams Realty Downtown, LLC

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Jeff Wenninger's journey from hockey player to 33-year law enforcement veteran provides a fascinating lens through which to examine police culture in America. Drawing from his unique background, Wenninger offers candid insights into the critical gaps plaguing modern policing – particularly the absence of critical thinking in a profession where split-second decisions can have life-altering consequences.

The conversation takes a sobering turn when Wenninger reveals that 36% of officer-involved shootings involve individuals experiencing mental health crises. He challenges the standard approach of multiple officers giving simultaneous commands with weapons drawn, noting how this often escalates rather than de-escalates volatile situations. His philosophy – "Just because you can doesn't mean you should" – encapsulates his belief that legal justification alone shouldn't determine an officer's actions.

Wenninger's global research into policing models offers hope for improvement. His time with London's Metropolitan Police revealed striking differences in approaches to suspects with non-firearm weapons, while Nordic countries' comprehensive selection and training processes demonstrate alternative pathways to building better police forces. These comparisons highlight both the challenges and possibilities for American law enforcement reform.

Perhaps most powerful is Wenninger's personal story of navigating racial tensions within the force shortly after the Los Angeles riots, and his commitment to community engagement despite ridicule from fellow officers. These experiences shaped his understanding that effective policing requires seeing shared humanity across divides and building genuine connections with community members.

Now as founder and CEO of Law Enforcement Consultants and author of the forthcoming book "On Thin Ice," Wenninger works to implement management best practices that can transform policing for the 21st century. His message combines realism about institutional resistance to change with hope that, with patience and commitment, law enforcement can evolve to better serve all communities.

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Disclaimer: The information provided in this podcast is for general informational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. The co-hosts of this podcast are not medical professionals. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on this podcast. Reliance on any information provided by the podcast hosts or guests is solely at your own risk.

Pamela Cass is a licensed broker with Kentwood Real Estate
Natalie Davis is a licensed broker with Keller Williams Realty Downtown, LLC

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When a college hockey player's simple question about helping his detained friend led to his own wrongful arrest, he could have chosen anger. Instead, Jeff Wenninger found inspiration that launched a 33-year law enforcement career, primarily with the LAPD. 

Our conversation with Jeff reveals the remarkable story of how adversity sparked purpose. Rather than harboring resentment after being beaten and jailed for "resisting arrest" while doing nothing wrong, Jeff became fascinated with criminal justice—eventually working as a corrections officer in the very jail where he'd been detained! This transformative experience, combined with his unique upbringing in a multiracial adoptive family during the 1960s, equipped him with exceptional perspective on community-police relations.

Jeff shares how his sociology professor father shaped his critical thinking without ever telling him what to do, and how his struggle with dyslexia taught him that dedicated effort trumps natural talent. His commitment to excellence shone through when he graduated as honor recruit from the Sheriff's Academy despite colleagues mocking his determination to exceed minimum standards.

Most telling was Jeff's deliberate choice to work in LAPD's 77th Division—ground zero for the Rodney King riots—because it offered the greatest learning opportunity in a community that "justifiably hated" the police. His story illuminates how resilience isn't just about recovering from setbacks but transforming them into stepping stones toward greater purpose and understanding.

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Disclaimer: The information provided in this podcast is for general informational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. The co-hosts of this podcast are not medical professionals. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on this podcast. Reliance on any information provided by the podcast hosts or guests is solely at your own risk.

Pamela Cass is a licensed broker with Kentwood Real Estate
Natalie Davis is a licensed broker with Keller Williams Realty Downtown, LLC

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Energetic boundaries shape everything from our everyday interactions to our deepest relationships, yet most of us navigate life completely unaware of how we absorb and carry others' energies. Michelle Wincell O'Leary, author of "Resilience," joins us to share powerful yet simple techniques for energy management that can transform your daily experience.

At the heart of our conversation is the transformative "rose technique" – a visualization practice that creates clear energetic boundaries. By envisioning a rose at the edge of your personal energy field, you establish a visual reminder of where you end and others begin. As Michelle explains, "On the other side of the rose is everyone else's stuff and it is not about you. Nothing going on out there is about you." This single realization can dramatically reduce stress, anxiety, and reactivity.

The applications of this technique extend far beyond theoretical energy work. Michelle shares practical ways to use the rose visualization during driving (where it creates a buffer zone around your vehicle), in meetings, and even at conferences where energetic overwhelm is common. She also demonstrates how to use a second rose to collect and clear unwanted energies that don't align with your authentic self – particularly helpful when you notice feelings or reactions that seem foreign to your nature.

Beyond visualization practices, Michelle emphasizes conscious breathing as a fundamental tool for energy management. Taking deliberate breaths creates space within conversations and daily activities, allowing us to stay present rather than rushing through moments. "You don't have to feel rushed and nervous about this moment," she reminds us. "We can just take our time and enjoy it."

Ready to reclaim your energy and create healthier boundaries? Michelle offers virtual classes, one-on-one sessions, and an "Empowered Connection" community. Visit her website or find her on Instagram @MichelleWincellOLeary to learn more. 

About Michelle 
@michellewincelloleary 

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Disclaimer: The information provided in this podcast is for general informational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. The co-hosts of this podcast are not medical professionals. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on this podcast. Reliance on any information provided by the podcast hosts or guests is solely at your own risk.

Pamela Cass is a licensed broker with Kentwood Real Estate
Natalie Davis is a licensed broker with Keller Williams Realty Downtown, LLC

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Have you ever wondered what would happen if you completely transformed your life in the span of just a few weeks? Michelle Wincell O'Leary found out firsthand when she experienced what she calls "the trifecta of change" in 2023 - leaving her career as a healthcare healing executive, ending her marriage, and giving up her house to live full-time on a boat on the Mississippi River.

The transformation didn't stop there. Michelle tapped into her background in therapy and her extensive training in Mastering Alchemy to navigate this massive transition with remarkable resilience. Rather than being crushed by these simultaneous life changes, she used them as a catalyst to discover her true calling as an author, teacher, and master of energy work.

Michelle's approach to alchemy - transforming stress and difficult emotions into manageable energy - provides a fascinating blueprint for anyone facing significant life transitions. She describes how she simplified everything in her life to gain clarity, and how writing from her "higher self" enabled her to produce an astonishing 80,000 words that would eventually become a series of eleven books. Her first book, "Resilience," debuted as a bestseller in 2024.

What's particularly inspiring about Michelle's story is how quickly she adapted to her new reality. Within just five months, she had not only adjusted to boat life but had created a new business teaching energy work classes called "Your Energy, Your Way" to her local community. Her journey exemplifies how embracing change, rather than resisting it, can lead us to unexpected fulfillment.

Whether you're considering a major life change or simply trying to navigate everyday stresses more effectively, Michelle's practical wisdom about staying present and consciously rebalancing yourself will give you valuable tools to transform challenges into opportunities. Join us to discover how you too can move from surviving to thriving through the power of resilience.

About Michelle 
@michellewincelloleary 
 

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Disclaimer: The information provided in this podcast is for general informational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. The co-hosts of this podcast are not medical professionals. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on this podcast. Reliance on any information provided by the podcast hosts or guests is solely at your own risk.

Pamela Cass is a licensed broker with Kentwood Real Estate
Natalie Davis is a licensed broker with Keller Williams Realty Downtown, LLC