***Note: I apologize for the annoying background noise in the episode! We spoke via phone which sadly did not result in the best audio quality, my apologies again.

THE CONVO

I am kicking off the Ineffable Goodness Podcast with the incredible Caits Meissner, PEN America's Prison and Justice Writing Program Director. Caits accomplishes all her work with an investment in transformative, restorative, and change-making capacities of imagination and creativity. Today I ask Caits about how she thinks about and approaches her work at PEN America in terms of resistance and exploring the possibility of concrete prison reforms from the crucial work that she— and the rest of the program— does. 

We also talk about:

• A brief summary of the work PEN America's Prison and Justice Writing Program is doing and has done
• The seemingly contradictory nature of non-reformist reform
• Looking at non-reformist reform as exploring the why

And, of course, 

• What she feels ineffably good about at the moment

Resources:
-Learn more about what PEN America's Prison and Justice Writing Program does:
https://pen.org/prison-writing/
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