After speaking with Pastor John Jackman about his church’s remarkable work forgiving millions in medical debt, Amber and Tom return to a thorny question beneath the headlines: Is it more faithful to relieve suffering now or to focus on fixing the systems that cause it?

From medical debt and healthcare reform to everyday acts of generosity, they explore the tension between mercy and justice, urgency and prevention. They travel from Chip and Dan Heath’s Upstream to the “Secret Santa” philanthropist to the Torah, the Talmud, the Quran, and the Gospels. Along the way, they discover how spiritual traditions offer practical guidance for navigating moral complexity.

They also wrestle with real dilemmas: choosing between local and global suffering, visible impact versus structural change, and anonymous giving versus visible recognition. It’s a thoughtful, open-hearted conversation for anyone trying to do good in a world where the need is endless – and the right answer is rarely simple.

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