Hosted by Phil Goff and Chris Finlayson with Sam Collins, Cross Party Lines returns with an episode that sweeps from the parliamentary pecking order to the Strait of Hormuz — and lands on a question New Zealand still hasn’t answered about its own pandemic past. Proudly supported by our foundational partner, Frank Risk Management, the 100% kiwi owned insurance brokerage.

In this episode:

* Party reshuffles and the next generation — Across Labour, National, the Greens and Te Pāti Māori, the political talent pool is being redrawn ahead of the election. Phil makes the case for Labour’s newly promoted women — Vanushi Walters in Foreign Affairs and Camilla Belich in Justice — as serious future leaders. Chris offers a generous farewell to Shane Reti and a pointed observation about why timing, more than talent, makes or breaks a political career. And the Greens’ membership-driven list process gets put under the microscope — democratic in theory, but does it deliver the candidates a party needs to actually win?

* Oil shock, drones and the future of New Zealand’s defence — With petrol above $3 a litre and South Korea already restricting refined oil exports, the Iran war has stopped being an overseas story. The panel takes apart the Marsden Point debate — who actually closed it and why the critique doesn’t hold up — before pivoting to a much bigger question: is New Zealand’s entire approach to defence procurement dangerously out of date? Phil argues the wars in Ukraine and Iran have made large ships and fighter jets obsolete, and that drones and asymmetric capability are where New Zealand’s defence dollar should go. Chris wonders aloud whether the aircraft carrier is already yesterday’s weapon. Both agree the last thing you want as your spokesperson in a fuel crisis is Shane Jones.

* The COVID Royal Commission — vindication, lawfare, or time to move on? — The second Royal Commission into New Zealand’s COVID response landed with 63 recommendations and a broadly positive verdict. Chris, who represented Jacinda Ardern and Grant Robertson before the Commission, explains why their decision not to appear in the public witness box was entirely proper — and why Winston Peters’ call for a third commission is less about accountability and more about using legal process as a political weapon. Phil and Chris find rare cross-party agreement: New Zealand got it mostly right, the work has been done, and the country needs to act on what it knows rather than relitigate what it can’t change.

Cross Party Lines exists to lift political literacy and create space for calm, good-faith political conversation. New episodes every Tuesday. If you value thoughtful debate, follow the podcast and share it with someone who might too.

🎟 Catch the team live at the Featherston Booktown Festival — Saturday 9 May. Tickets at booktown.org.nz

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit crosspartylines.substack.com