We all live with them, even sometimes in fear of them. It seems like they pop-up when we least expect them - sometimes when we least want them.

We're talking about software and system updates. Some people are super update-phobic. Some are hugely indifferent, and some are even hugely excited by updates.

The bottom-line is, updates are a necessary part of our software-powered world. We talk to Fairphone developer Dirk Vogt and PC Pro journalist Darien Graham-Smith about why updates are needed, and what makes a good update.

At least two updates were required to complete this show, including podcast producer Dave Pickering's much-feared Windows 10 update.