Retained

Melone Hatley, P.C. started as a solo practice in Reston, Virginia in 2014. Today it has nine offices across Virginia, South Carolina, Florida and Texas, and it ranked #3 on the 2025 Law Firm 500.

In this episode of Retained, Scott Bishop sits down with CEO Charles Hatley to talk about what fast growth really costs, running a firm with his wife and founder Rebecca Melone, why they brought marketing in-house, the one number he watches, and where AI stops inside their firm.

0:00 Welcome to Retained

0:49 What fast growth really costs

2:05 Running a firm with your spouse

3:30 Marketing in-house and the map

6:16 The one number: retains

6:56 The marketing test budget

7:55 The AI brick wall

10:32 European-level privacy

11:38 The router case

14:40 Advice for growing firm owners

15:51 What's next for Melone Hatley

FOR FAMILY LAW FIRM OWNERS

Want to know how your firm shows up when people ask AI for a lawyer? Get your free AI Visibility Report: https://upandsocial.com/visibility

Talk with Scott: https://scott.upandsocial.com

Chapters

0:00 Cold open and intro

0:43 From therapist to divorce coach - why the therapy room was not enough

2:20 What an attorney cannot fix mid-divorce - the emotional handoff

4:31 Nobody told her coaches existed - going through her own 2012 divorce

5:58 What family law attorneys get wrong - the instinct to fight

8:33 The divorce industry is changing - mediation and collaborative law

9:20 A co-parenting case that turned around - the colleague mind shift

11:59 Inside Divorce Network Pro - how the team works week to week

15:39 How do you know this works - burnout, cost, and happier clients

16:50 Where to find Jill and close

Family law attorneys are handed the emotional weight of a case whether they want it or not. Jill Barnett Kaufman, MSW, LCSW is a therapist turned divorce coach, co-parenting expert, author of The Co-Parenting Playbook, and co-founder of Divorce Network Pro. In this episode of Retained she explains what she saw in the therapy room that the legal process was not giving clients, why what lawyers learn in law school has to be unlearned to be a great family law attorney, and how a coach in your corner protects both the client and the firm.

She also tells her own story: she made a side deal with her ex against her attorney's advice, signed a waiver saying so, and 14 years later has no regrets and never went to court.

In this conversation:

• Why therapists cannot strategize a divorce and coaches can

• The first few sessions with a client who is emotionally struggling

• What the fight instinct costs firms in client experience and referrals

• The co-parent to colleague mind shift that unlocked a stalled case

• How Divorce Network Pro assembles coach, financial pro, lender, realtor, and therapist around the attorney

Find Jill: http://divorcenetworkpro.com

Retained is the podcast for family and estate planning law firm owners, hosted by Scott Bishop of Up And Social.

If you work with divorcing families and want to be part of a referral team like the one Jill describes, reach out through the show and we will make the introduction.

Be a guest: https://upandsocial.com/retained/be-a-guest

FOR FAMILY LAW FIRM OWNERS

Most firms do not lose cases to a better lawyer down the street. They lose them before the phone ever rings. When a person in your town searches for a divorce attorney, or now asks ChatGPT who to call, the firms that show up first get the consult.

That is the work we do at Up And Social. We help family law and estate planning firms get found in Google and in AI search, fix the pages so they answer the questions people actually type, keep reviews and listings clean and consistent, and turn that traffic into booked consults. Plain marketing work, built for how family law clients actually choose a firm.

Free AI Visibility Report for your firm: https://upandsocial.com/visibility

Talk to Scott: https://scott.upandsocial.com

Three years. $60,000 each. Still no divorce.

Then they finished in four months, without a courtroom.

Most divorces get trapped in a system built for fighting, not healing. Jen Love of Solace Divorce explains why the "bulldog attorney" approach leaves parents, kids, and even the lawyers emotionally wrecked, and what changes when divorce is handled with mediation, coaching, and real human support.

Host Scott Bishop talks with Jen about the moment she walked away from nine years of litigation after realizing the courtroom was creating more harm than resolution. She shares how becoming a parent reshaped her perspective, why family law attorneys burn out inside high-conflict systems, and how Solace helps couples move through one of life's hardest transitions without turning it into a years-long war.

You'll discover:

• Why Jen traded litigation for mediation after seeing what adversarial divorce does to children
• The emotional weight most clients are carrying before they ever walk into a law office
• How nervous system regulation, coaching, and support change the outcome of a divorce
• How one couple spent 3 years and $60,000+ each in court, then finalized in 4 months with Solace
• What attorneys miss when they focus only on legal strategy
• Why Jen believes the entire family law system needs a mindset shift

Jen also shares how she helps people rethink co-parenting, holidays, and post-divorce relationships through a lens of gratitude and long-term family health. For attorneys who know the system needs to change, she opens the door to a new way of working, including upcoming attorney retreats in Crestone, Colorado.

About Jen Love
Jen Love is a family law attorney, mediator, and divorce coach at Solace Divorce, where she has guided more than 500 couples through a more mindful, intentional divorce process. Her work centers on treating the legal and emotional sides of divorce as one process instead of two separate battles.

Essential listening if you're going through a divorce, supporting someone who is, or you're an attorney who knows there has to be a better way.