In this episode of The JUNTO Podcast, BFF Co-Founder Phil Linderman hosts a conversation with Robert Destro and Al Gombis, both BFF Fellows and longtime State Department officials, on the state of human rights diplomacy in Washington.

Robert Destro, former Assistant Secretary for the Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor (DRL), and Al Gombis, who served as Senior Official Performing the Duties of the Under Secretary for Civilian Security, Democracy, and Human Rights, share a candid insider’s perspective on how well-intentioned policies have drifted away from America’s founding ideals.

Together, they discuss why “human rights” must be refocused around freedom of conscience, individual responsibility, and equal justice under law — and how diplomats can rebuild credibility by linking human rights to measurable progress, not political agendas.