Return on Empathy (ROE)

HR leader, executive coach, and TEDx speaker Cheryl Gould (Whole. Worthy. Wise: The New Standard of Leadership) shares what happens when leaders feel forced to leave parts of themselves behind at work—and how checking our humanity at the door is fueling systemic burnout across industries. Cheryl shares her personal journey from aspiring to serve in the "people business" to spending three decades reshaping how organizations view employee fulfillment. From helping Gen Z grads navigate communication in a post-COVID workplace to coaching executive leaders through identity crises, Cheryl offers actionable wisdom on leading with vulnerability, curiosity, and authentic connection.

Key Topics Covered:

The Wholeness Crisis: Why senior executives reach the peak of their careers only to ask, "Who am I?" after years of wearing a professional mask.

Gen Z in the Workplace: The post-pandemic skill gaps in communication, boundaries, and professional initiative—and how mentorship can bridge the divide.

Leading Through Changing Times: Why increased absenteeism and turnover are warning signs of burnout, and why scaling growth without supporting people fails in the long run.

Guest Links

Cheryl’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cherylgouldsphr/

Cheryl’s TEDx Talk: https://youtu.be/_Vev27ZEMb0?si=Nk6BSjtQr8GsT9ma

The Empathy Collective Community Membership

Attend our Free Event:

Join us on November 4th at 12 PM Eastern for our live panel discussion, AI & The Future of Work, featuring experts from Microsoft, the University of Michigan, and the AI Mental Health Collective. Register for free access here: https://the-empathy-collective.mn.co/plans/2006101?bundle_token=ff5051b2ec0c6a379c6fc575b513af74&utm_source=manual

Bonus Content:

Want to hear Cheryl answer Dr. Gwendolyn William’s Empathy Challenge on staying human inside systems that seem to strip humanity from their people? Full extended cuts and guest Q&A segments are available exclusively to members inside The Empathy Collective. Join today with code FUTUREOFWORK for a 60-day membership trial! https://www.theempathycollective.com/

Dr. Gwendolyn Williams—a hospital medicine physician and healthcare leader—joins host Rebecca Dhrimaj for a deeply moving conversation on the systemic realities of healthcare, moral injury, and human-centered leadership. Drawing from her upbringing in Queens as a first-generation daughter of Caribbean immigrants, Dr. Williams breaks down how early lessons in community care shaped her calling to medicine and her persistent refusal to conform to a "culture of silence." She shares intimate stories from the shop floor and ICUs, detailing how structural failure, administrative overload, and emotional exhaustion manifest as systemic moral injury rather than individual weakness. Dr. Williams outlines practical frameworks for leaders across all industries to move from corrective judgment to curious witnessing, build psychological safety, and uphold the shared humanity of their teams.

Key Takeaways

• Community Care as a Foundational Metric: Growing up in poverty in Queens within a Caribbean immigrant community taught Dr. Williams that leadership and care are rooted in collective responsibility rather than individual gain. True service means extending grace and resource-sharing to those with less, setting the moral framework for a career in medicine.
• Challenging the Culture of Silence: Healthcare training and corporate systems often socialize professionals into an "unwritten syllabus" of self-sacrifice and compliance. True leadership requires moral courage to speak up against systemic dysfunction, bureaucracy, and safety concerns, even at personal and professional risk.
• Systemic Error vs. Individual Failure: Mistakes and emotional breakdowns at work are rarely individual shortcomings; they are symptoms of process breakdowns, unsafe ratios, and institutional failures. Leaders must step in to remove obstacles, hold space, and provide human-centered relief rather than issuing corrective discipline.
• Moral Injury Over Burnout: Burnout is often framed as an individual resilience flaw, but healthcare workers and organizational teams are suffering from moral injury—the trauma of being prevented from doing what is morally and clinically right due to red tape, corporatization, and administrative burdens.
• Witnessing Over Correcting: Empathy and compassion are operational muscles that require slowing down to become curious before becoming corrective. True connection requires removing corporate "armor," leaning into uncomfortable emotional proximity, and validating the lived experiences of others.

Chapters

00:00 – Introduction & Welcome

01:18 – Childhood Journey: Growing Up First-Gen in Queens and Community Care

08:03 – Lessons in Generosity & The Moral Foundation of Service

11:00 – Uncovering Systemic Dysfunction: Medical School and the Culture of Silence

14:44 – Defining Moral Injury & Refusing the "Unwritten Syllabus"

20:59 – The Corporatization of Healthcare & Rationing Emotional Energy

28:03 – Psychological Safety Paradox: Whistleblowing vs. Crucifixion

31:03 – A Story from the Floor: De-escalating Burnout in a Supply Room

40:10 – What Metrics Fail to Measure: The Hidden Human Cost

44:58 – Removing the Armor: Delivering Heartbreaking News in the ICU

54:26 – Uncovering Hidden Struggles: Quieter Signals of Organizational Distress

01:05:07 – Passing the Empathy Torch: Responding to Steve Gund on Operationalizing Empathy

01:09:43 – Passing the Empathy Torch: A Toddler's Wisdom & Dr. Williams's Challenge for the Next Guest

Connect & Resources

• Dr. Gwendolyn Williams, MD on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gwenthedoctor/
• Organization Reference: Dr. Lorna Breen Heroes' Foundation: https://drlornabreen.org/

Join The Empathy Collective Community

Stop leading in isolation and join The Empathy Collective community of leaders across industries who are coaching each other through change in an era of rapid technological transformation. Register for our upcoming free virtual event on AI and the Future of Work at this link: https://the-empathy-collective.mn.co/landing/

In this episode, Steve Gund—CEO of The Gund Company and a fourth-generation business leader—shares how a transformative awakening from the late Bob Chapman (former Chairman and CEO of Barry-Wehmiller) redefined his perspective on leadership and the purpose of business. Steve discusses his personal journey from early childhood service to leading a thriving family-owned manufacturing business that has grown 15% annually for three decades. He breaks down how to turn empathetic listening from an abstract concept into an operationalized system, details their unique Individual Development Plan (IDP) process centered around personal dreams, and illustrates how viewing mistakes through After Action Reviews fosters psychological safety. Steve also explains how human-centered leadership and business performance mutually reinforce each other to cultivate lifelong flourishing at work and at home.

Key Takeaways

Business as a Conduit for Service: Business is more than just maximizing shareholder value or manufacturing products; it is a powerful platform to serve others, transform lives, and provide opportunities for people to realize their full potential.

Operationalizing Empathetic Listening: Listening cannot remain an abstract corporate value. Leaders can build systematic listening habits across all levels through structured communication training (e.g., "Listen Like a Leader" and "Careful Conversations") and visual management processes like Gemba walks and Kaizen improvement boards.

Dreams-First Individual Development: Traditional performance reviews often cause anxiety and stress. Re-framing individual development around an employee’s personal life dreams creates an environment of trust, genuine care, and continuous personal growth.

Systemic Error Recovery Over Blame: Mistakes are rarely individual failures; they are usually process and system issues. Adopting military-style After Action Reviews (AARs) creates psychological safety, allowing teams to be introspective, admit errors, and focus on continuous learning.

Flourishing Drives Performance: Human-centered leadership is not soft or non-performant. By upholding high standards while prioritizing care for each other, customers, and the business, individual human flourishing directly drives long-term organizational flourishing.

Chapters

00:00 – Introduction & Honoring the Legacy of Bob Chapman

01:21 – Steve’s Awakening: Reimagining Business as Community Service

04:40 – Early Influences: Faith, Service, and Lessons in Accountability with Compassion

09:12 – Debunking Business School Dogma: Moving Beyond Shareholder Maximization

11:25 – The Gund Company Story: Sustaining 15% Annual Growth Through Culture

16:01 – Operationalizing Listening: Bringing "Listen Like a Leader" to the Factory Floor

22:40 – Flipping the Script on Performance Reviews: Dreams-Based Development Plans

29:08 – Transformational Growth: Stories from the Shop Floor

31:03 – Celebrating People: The "Stanley Cup" Award & Three Guiding Principles

36:04 – High Performance & Psychological Safety: Using After Action Reviews for Mistake Recovery

40:54 – Passing the Empathy Torch: Responding to Dr. Monica Worline’s Vision of Organizational Flourishing

47:13 – Passing the Empathy Torch: Steve’s Challenge for the Next Guest

Connect & Resources

Company Website: https://thegundcompany.com/

Steve Gund’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/steve-gund-5081b513/

Book Reference: Everybody Matters: The Extraordinary Power of Caring for Your People Like Family by Bob Chapman & Raj Sisodia

Join The Empathy Collective Community

Stop leading in isolation and join The Empathy Collective community of leaders across industries who are coaching each other through change in an era of rapid technological transformation. Register for our upcoming event on AI and the Future of Work and gain free trial access to the community using the promo code FUTUREOFWORK at this link: https://the-empathy-collective.mn.co/landing/

In this episode, Dr. Monica Worline—faculty director at the Center for Positive Organizations at the University of Michigan Ross School of Business, research scientist, and co-author of Awakening Compassion at Work—explores how organizations can evolve from rigid, mechanistic systems into thriving, human-centered communities. Monica shares how growing up in a communitarian rural town shaped her perspective on care, her early experiences navigating demanding tech startups, and her decades-long research with mentor Dr. Jane Dutton pioneering compassion studies in business. She breaks down the four-part process of organizational compassion, challenges the outdated logic of Taylorism and efficiency-driven downsizing, and offers actionable strategies for building psychological safety, preserving human dignity, and fostering collective thriving in the age of AI.

• Mechanistic vs. Living Systems: Traditional management treats organizations as predictable, linear machines composed of replaceable parts. True human-centered leadership views organizations as living, nonlinear organisms where a leader’s primary role is to steward system vitality and shared purpose.
• Work as a Source of Dignity: In an era dominated by AI and efficiency-driven metrics, leaders must uphold a vision of work that honors human dignity and provides a sense of mattering rather than reducing people to task-based outputs.
• The 4-Part Process of Compassion: Compassion is not a soft personality trait; it is a systematic four-part process: Noticing distress, Interpreting it as worthy of effort, feeling Empathic Concern, and taking Action to alleviate suffering.
• Designing Organizational Compassion: Organizations can systematically build capacity for compassion by creating structural attentional mechanisms, shared meaning-making frameworks, and coordinated resource-flowing systems to catch pain early.
• Reframing Attention from Threat to Purpose: While human attention naturally scans for threats and negativity, our motivational drive thrives on progress, contribution, and shared purpose. Leaders build resilient teams by actively elevating stories of mutual generosity and collective flourishing.

• 00:00 – Introduction & Connecting Systems Awareness to Organizational Compassion
• 01:16 – Monica’s Journey: Communitarian Beginnings & Lessons from Tech Startups
• 04:07 – Academic Mentorship: Partnering with Jane Dutton & Pioneering Compassion Research
• 08:21 – Mechanistic vs. Organic Systems: Unpacking Taylorism & Outdated KPIs
• 14:08 – Human Dignity in the Age of AI: Protecting the Meaning of Work
• 17:00 – Staying Connected to Purpose as Organizations Scale
• 20:02 – Defining Compassion: The 4-Part Process (Noticing, Interpreting, Feeling, Acting)
• 25:20 – Pockets of Suffering: Identifying Structural Pain & Workplace Stressors
• 31:05 – The Dismal State of Disengagement: Layoffs, Downsizing, and Misused AI
• 35:01 – Practical Leadership Action: Using the Compassion Blueprint with Your Team
• 40:19 – Passing the Empathy Torch: Responding to Dr. Mette Miriam Böll on Societal Vision
• 45:27 – The Social Architecture of Thriving: Networks, Roles, Routines, and Culture
• 50:18 – Passing the Empathy Torch: Monica’s Question for Steve Gund

• Book: Awakening Compassion at Work: The Quiet Power That Elevates People and Organizations by Monica Worline & Jane Dutton
• Website Center for Positive Organizations: https://positiveorgs.bus.umich.edu/
• Dr. Worline’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/monica-worline-2119a5/

Stop leading in isolation and join The Empathy Collective community of leaders across industries who are coaching each other through change in an era of rapid technological transformation. Register for our upcoming event on AI and the Future of Work and gain free trial access to the community using the promo code FUTUREOFWORK at this link: https://the-empathy-collective.mn.co/landing/

In this episode, Dr. Mette Miriam Böll—biologist, researcher at MIT, and co-founder of the Center for Systems Awareness—explores how we move beyond linear thinking into true systems awareness. Mette shares her childhood journey of noticing the disconnect between human behavior and lived experience, her early passion for animals and nature, and how her background in biosemiotics shaped her view of interconnected human systems. She discusses the critical difference between empathy and compassion, the importance of inner work and emotional literacy, and how cultivating "generative social fields" can transform school systems, reduce burnout, and reshape modern corporate culture.

Key Takeaways

• Linear Thinking vs. Systems Awareness: Linear thinking focuses on reductionism and single answers. Systems thinking sees interdependencies and ecosystem dynamics. Systems awareness incorporates sensing and feeling the direct, embodied experience of being within those systems.
• Unintended Consequences: Major societal and environmental crises (climate change, youth mental health declines) are the cumulative result of linear actions lacking systems awareness.
• Empathy vs. Compassion: Empathy is an evolutionary mechanism allowing us to feel what others feel, which can lead to emotional overwhelm and burnout. Compassion is a grounded, intentional stance of caring that allows leaders to support others without absorbing their distress or depleting themselves.
• Generative Social Fields: The collective emotional and relational energy of a group directly impacts outcomes. When individuals do inner work to understand their habitual triggers, they contribute to healthier, more resilient organizational fields.
• Preventing Burnout: Master practitioners trained in compassionate systems awareness show a remarkable ability to navigate high-trauma and high-stress environments without burning out, because they know how to replenish their own inner systems.

Chapters

• 00:00 – Podcast Backstory & Building Community Out of Isolation
• 05:19 – Welcome & Introduction of Dr. Mette Miriam Böll
• 06:43 – Mette’s Childhood: solaces in Nature, Bafflement with Humans, and Early Ambitions
• 14:02 – Recognizing the Disconnect: Perception, Dissonance, and Social Fatigue
• 18:18 – Defining Systems Awareness: Linear Thinking vs. Ecosystem Sensing
• 25:15 – The Cost of Unintended Side Effects: Environmental Crises & Human Wellbeing
• 30:36 – The Necessity of Inner Work: Understanding Habitual Responses and Trigger Systems
• 38:22 – Conflict Resolution in Action: How Two Third-Graders Used the Ladder of Inference
• 45:25 – Empowering Youth & The Intuitive Nature of Systems Literacies
• 48:48 – Navigating the Modern Workplace: Burnout, Disengagement, and Transactional Culture
• 55:45 – Sustaining Resilience in Crisis: How Systems Awareness Prevents Practitioner Burnout
• 59:13 – Transforming Workplace Cultures: Creating Generative Fields and Integration Check-ins
• 01:06:55 – Passing the Empathy Torch: Responding to Donna Long (Empathy vs. Grounded Compassion)
• 01:16:33 – Passing the Empathy Torch: Mette’s Question for Dr. Monica Worline on Societal Vision

Connect & Resources

• Website: https://systemsawareness.org/
• YouTube: @center-for-systems-awareness
• Instagram: @systemsawareness
• Dr. Böll’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mette-miriam-rakel-b%C3%B6ll-a242632/

Join The Empathy Collective Community and Lead with Resilience in the Age of AI

Stop leading in isolation and join The Empathy Collective community of leaders across industries who are coaching each other through change in an era of rapid technological transformation. Register for our upcoming event on AI and the Future of Work and gain free trial access to the community using the promo code FUTUREOFWORK at this link: https://the-empathy-collective.mn.co/landing/

In this inspiring episode, Rebecca sits down with HR leader Donna Long for a deeply candid discussion on the power of empathetic leadership, the myth that empathy creates weakness, and the far-reaching "ripple effects" our actions have on workplace culture.

Donna shares her unique career trajectory—from starting in hair and makeup inspired by Dayton news anchor Marsha Bonhart, to navigating data analytics, and ultimately finding her true calling in Human Resources. Together, they explore how leaders in high-stakes environments (like healthcare) can balance speed with understanding, replace fear-based "accountability" with true ownership, and build sustainable team resilience.

• The Inspiration Behind the Journey: How watching trailblazing anchor Marsha Bonhart in Dayton, Ohio inspired Donna’s early career dreams, which eventually evolved into a passion for caring for people in the workplace.
• Shift from Accountability to Ownership: Why the word "accountability" is often weaponized into a "dagger" in organizations—and how shifting the focus to personal ownership creates psychological safety and better decision-making.
• Speed vs. Understanding: Why leaders default to fast-paced corrective action when triggered, and how pausing to ask "What if?" uncovers root causes rather than surface-level fixes.
• The Empathy Fallacy: Debunking the belief that empathy makes a leader soft. Empathy doesn't lower performance standards; it changes how standards are received and empowers teams to reach them.
• The Ripple Effect: How one manager’s decision to pause and listen impacts team morale, patient care satisfaction, and even what employees carry home to their families.

"Empathy doesn't make a leader soft. Empathy raises the bar. When people feel judged, they shut down. But when they feel understood, it makes them open to hearing the feedback." — Donna

"Where in your leadership are you choosing speed over understanding? And what would change if you paused long enough to truly listen?" — Donna

"When your people know that you care, then they deliver care effectively... They become less performative and more present in the moment." — Donna

• 00:00 – Welcome & Setting the Vibe: The power of your environment
• 05:19 – From Hair & Makeup to HR: Donna’s circuitous career path & Marsha Bonhart’s early influence
• 08:35 – Stumbling into HR: Stop "accidentally" caring for people and do it for a living
• 11:33 – Slowing Down to Solve the Right Problems: Coaching leaders through triggers
• 17:11 – Why We Need to Stop Weaponizing "Accountability" and Focus on "Ownership"
• 20:29 – The Healthcare Impact: How internal empathy directly drives patient survey scores
• 24:32 – Understanding the Ripple Effect of Low Morale
• 29:58 – The Empathy Challenge: One question every leader needs to ask themselves today
• 32:23 – Passing the Empathy Torch: Donna responds to Pat Geary's question on continuous leadership growth
• 36:26 – Donna’s Question for the Next Guest

Donna’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/donna-r-long-shrm-scp-92ba58b9/

Join The Empathy Collective Community and Lead with Resilience in the Age of AI

Stop leading in isolation and join The Empathy Collective community of leaders across industries who are coaching each other through change in an era of rapid technological transformation. Register for our upcoming event on AI and the Future of Work and gain free trial access to the community using the promo code FUTUREOFWORK at this link: https://the-empathy-collective.mn.co/landing/

In this episode, host Rebecca Dhrimaj sits down with Pat Geary, President of Story Construction, to discuss how a purpose-driven mindset can completely transform company culture and frontline employee retention. Reflecting on his 34-year journey with the employee-owned firm, Pat breaks down the evolution from a traditional command-and-control leadership model to a collaborative, human-centered philosophy built around one core compass: creating an environment where every craftsperson can have a "good day". He shares how Story Construction operationalized this philosophy by replacing buried annual reviews with continuous, 120-day goal cycles integrated directly into daily work routines. Pat highlights the power of crowdsourcing knowledge on job sites, leveraging small daily wins, and creating a supportive culture where team members actively look out for each other's career growth. Packed with practical advice on change management, psychological safety, and humble inquiry, this conversation offers an inspiring blueprint for any leader looking to build lasting engagement from the ground up.

Chapter Markers

• 00:01 – Introduction & Intentional Career Development
• 01:03 – Pat’s Leadership Journey: From Iowa State to 34 Years at Story Construction
• 04:55 – The Philosophy: Creating an Environment Where Frontline Workers Have a "Good Day"
• 08:38 – Shifting from Command-and-Control to Collaborative Crowdsourcing
• 12:08 – Directive vs. Facilitative Leadership: The Plumbing Foreman Story
• 16:50 – Why Annual Reviews Fail & How to Move Career Growth into Daily Routines
• 25:55 – Peer-Led Development: How the Collective Helps Each Other Succeed
• 30:56 – Continuous Improvement & The Power of 1% Daily Compound Growth
• 37:55 – Removing Judgment and Embracing Experimentation Without Fear of Failure
• 42:36 – Where to Start: Aligning Your Systems with What You Believe
• 46:36 – The Empathy Challenge: Leading with Questions and Saying "I Don't Know Yet"

Key Topics Covered

• The "Good Day" Compass: Why focusing on daily frontline employee experience naturally drives traditional business metrics like safety, quality, and profit.
• Shift from Directive to Facilitative Leadership: How empowering frontline teams to crowdsource solutions builds trust and drives engagement.
• Daily Career Development: Moving beyond annual, buried performance reviews by integrating incremental goals directly into daily work plans.
• The Power of Small Wins (Compound Effect): Why 1% daily improvements beat sudden, massive change initiatives.
• Empathy in Leadership: Dropping judgment, embracing "I don't know," and using humble inquiry to support your team.

Notable Quotes

"It's easier to change how people think by changing what they do than changing what they do by changing how they think." — Pat Geary

"Admitting to the world you don't know, and then asking for help... folks will rally. Nobody knows everything." — Pat Geary

Resources & Guest Links

• Guest Info:
• Pat Geary on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pat-geary-79407815/
• Story Construction Website: https://storycon.com/
• Books & Frameworks Mentioned:
• Simon Sinek: Start with Why
• Mike Rother: Toyota Kata & Rother Improvement Routine
• Training Within Industry (TWI): Job Relations (JR) & Job Instruction (JI) routines
• Association for Manufacturing Excellence (AME): People and Culture Consortia: https://www.ame.org/programs/ame-consortia
• Previous Episode Mentioned:
• Episode 113 featuring Stephen Shedletsky (Shed) on building a speak-up culture: https://www.theempathycollective.com/episode-113

Join The Empathy Collective Community and Become a Resilient Change Leader

Stop leading in isolation and join The Empathy Collective community of leaders across industries who are coaching each other through change and disruption. Reference the promo code ROEPOD114 for a 10% discount when you sign up for any leadership path: https://www.theempathycollective.com/thecollective

What if the secret to building high-performing, psychologically safe teams was as simple as helping leaders "suck less"? In this episode, host Rebecca Dhrimaj sits down with Stephen "Shed" Shedletzky, author of Speak Up Culture, to discuss how emotional intelligence, self-efficacy, and genuine compassion can transform corporate leadership. From overcoming a childhood stutter to navigating corporate restructuring and coaching executive teams, Shed shares how leaders can create cultures where people feel safe to speak up, take accountability, and lead with purpose. Tune in for an engaging conversation on defining good leadership, overcoming pressure, and leading with radical candor.

Sound Bites

"Leadership is the attempt to leave the people and the world around us better than when we found them"

"Confident leaders are calm and quiet, not loud and insecure"

"You can't force human connection, but you can be available for it"

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Guest Credibility

01:09 Overcoming Speech Impediments and Finding a Voice

04:06 Early Public Speaking and Grandfather's Survival Story

07:49 Helping Leaders "Suck Less" and the Leadership Gap

11:04 Lessons from Corporate Restructuring and Courageous Leaders

13:58 Self-Efficacy and Leading Through Crisis

17:22 Core Leadership Attributes: Decisiveness, Compassion, Confidence

20:35 Leadership Emergence vs. Leadership Effectiveness

23:48 Rethinking Promotions Beyond High Performance

27:03 Real-World Examples of High-Empathy Leadership

33:06 Emotional vs. Cognitive Empathy in Action 34:18 Hayden Homes, Blue Courage, and "Give As You Go" Culture

39:48 Managing Investors, Shareholders, and Long-Term Value

44:37 Removing Environmental Pressure to Build Speak Up Culture

48:13 Empathy Challenge: Staying Available for Connection

54:28 Final Reflections and Empathy Challenge Question

Resources & Guest Links

• Speak Up Culture by Stephen Shedletzky: https://a.co/d/0aj5eU4n
• Shed Inspires Website: https://www.shedinspires.com/
• Shed Some Light Podcast: https://www.shedinspires.com/podcast
• Stephen Shedletzky’s LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenshedletzky/

Join The Empathy Collective Community and Become a Resilient Change Leader

Stop leading in isolation and join The Empathy Collective community of leaders across industries who are coaching each other through change and disruption. Reference the promo code ROEPOD113 for a 10% discount when you sign up for any leadership path: https://www.theempathycollective.com/thecollective

What if the secret to revolutionary leadership in a transactional, high-pressure industry was as simple as radical empathy? In this episode, host Rebecca Dhrimaj sits down with Michele Wilson, a leader disrupting the construction space with community and class. From her childhood memories climbing a 100-foot water tower with her master electrician dad to running major operations and founding Sonder Luxe Home Solutions, Coffee with Contractors® and Cocktails with Contractors™, Michele shares how emotional intelligence and authentic connection can completely transform how we do business. Tune in for an inspiring conversation on slowing down, protecting your peace, and leading with conviction—especially when you are the minority in your industry.

Sound Bites

"We're all siloed and construction needs transparency"

"It's okay to slow down in a fast-paced world"

"Stop and listen to prevent mistakes and harm"

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Guest Credibility

00:54 Early Life and Shaping Experiences

02:29 Memorable Construction Moments with Father

03:53 Educational Journey and Language Studies

05:41 Transition into Construction and Career Moves

06:47 Challenges as a Woman in Construction

08:56 Building Industry Community and Support Networks

10:19 Disrupting Industry Norms and Transparency

12:12 Relationship Building and Client Trust

13:17 Emotional Intelligence and Leadership

14:45 Deciding to Get EQI Certification

16:36 Trauma, Empathy, and Self-awareness

18:26 Authenticity and Setting Boundaries

19:43 Leveraging Relationships for Project Success

22:26 Handling Decision Fatigue and Overwhelm

25:07 Using Decision Fatigue Strategically

27:03 Maintaining Self-care and Boundaries

29:45 Values, Integrity, and Community

32:28 Surrounding Yourself with Aligned People

35:09 Final Reflection and Empathy Challenge

Resources & Guest Links

Sonder Luxe Home Solutions: https://www.sonder-luxe.com/

Coffee with Contractor and Cocktails with Contractors (a curated community of residential and commercial construction professionals in Raleigh/Durham, North Carolina): https://cwcrdu.com/

Michele Wilson’s LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michele-w/

Join The Empathy Collective Community for Leaders Across Sectors

Stop leading in isolation and join the The Empathy Collective community of leaders across industries who are coaching each other through change and disruption. Reference the promo code ROEPOD112 for a 10% discount when you sign up for any leadership path: https://www.theempathycollective.com/thecollective

Is your drive to achieve actually driving you toward burnout? In this special panel episode of the podcast, host Rebecca Dhrimaj sits down with Gallup-certified CliftonStrengths coach Carlos Martinez, RTT therapist Polly Angel, and clinical psychologist Dr. Paula Freedman-Diamond to dissect the thin line between healthy ambition and toxic striving. Together, the panel explores how high-achieving behaviors often stem from childhood protective mechanisms, why modern corporate structures unintentionally reward relentless task-checking, and how over-indexing on performance metrics damages workplace relationships and personal well-being. Packed with actionable strategies on unlearning perfectionism, setting boundary-driven expectations, and re-centering humanity in high-pressure environments, this conversation offers a powerful roadmap for anyone looking to excel without burning out.

Sound Bites

"Feelings never last, including the ones we dislike"

"Self-celebration fuels happiness and motivation"

"Connecting with purpose keeps us grounded as humans"

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Ambition and Expertise

03:40 Understanding the Achiever Strength

09:05 The Striver Inner Part and Its Impact

12:49 Toxic Striving and Self-Worth

17:40 Unlearning Toxic Patterns

21:03 Understanding Urgency and Emotional Tolerance

24:41 Striving for Balance in Achievements

31:38 Managing Up: Navigating Toxic Leadership

37:36 Celebrating Process Over Outcomes

40:55 Silencing the Inner Critic

Resources & Guest Links

Dr. Paula Freedman Diamond’s website and book: https://www.paulafreedmandiamond.com/

Toxic Striving podcast episode: https://www.theempathycollective.com/episode-59

Carlos Martinez’s LinkedIn profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cimartz/

CliftonStrengths Assessment - https://www.gallup.com/cliftonstrengths/en/home.aspx

Bringing Your Best Self to Work podcast episode: https://www.theempathycollective.com/episode-4

Polly Angel’s website and book: https://theangelpath.com/

Rapid Transformational Therapy podcast episode: https://www.theempathycollective.com/episode-17

Join The Empathy Collective Community for Leaders Across Sectors

Stop leading in isolation and join the The Empathy Collective community of leaders across industries who are coaching each other through change and disruption. Reference the promo code ROEPOD111 for a 10% discount when you sign up for any leadership path: https://www.theempathycollective.com/thecollective