In this episode, Olivia sits down with Sara Leoni, CEO of Ziplines Education, to talk about what learners truly need: credentials that carry weight, hands-on simulations that reflect real work, not busywork, and support that builds confidence along the way. They dive deep into why higher ed is still stuck on outdated skill sets, what practical, long-lasting skills look like today, and why small businesses might be the most underused training ground we have. If you’re rethinking what it actually means to prepare learners for the road ahead, this is a grounded and thoughtful place to start.