In this episode I interview Megan Samford and Rick Cherney of Rockwell Automation. First, we discuss how they are dealing with vulnerabilities reported to them by researchers and other means. Second we discuss the Rockwell Automation getting past the Insecure By Design issue that has plagued the Level 1/PLC devices. Most notably the signed firmware and ICS protocol security in CIP Security. We also delve into the challenges of getting CIP Security deployed in both green field and legacy systems.