Christian Haynes ’20 joins us again to speak with Ron Lawson ‘75 about the transformational power of both a Holy Cross education, and the Holy Cross alumni network.

Interview originally recorded on Martin Luther King Jr. Day on January 20, 2020.

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Transcript

Ron Lawson:

Holy Cross instills in you that notion of perseverance and what I realized when I graduated here... that I already had the suit of armor necessary to succeed in life and that played itself out at Carnegie Mellon because when I graduated from Carnegie Mellon, I knew it was the Holy Cross experience that got me to that point.

Maura Sweeney:

Welcome to Mission-Driven, where we speak with alumni who are leveraging their Holy Cross education to make a meaningful difference in the world around them. I'm your host, Maura Sweeney from the class of 2007, director of alumni career development at Holy Cross. I'm delighted to welcome you to today's show.

Maura Sweeney:

In this episode, we hear from Ron Lawson from the great class of 1975. Ron attended Holy Cross in the early '70s, a time that has been celebrated in the book Fraternity by Diane Brady, which chronicles the lives of an influential cohort of African-American students at Holy Cross. After growing up on Long Island, Ron studied political science at Holy Cross. He still considers those years living on Healy Three among the best in his life.

Christian Haynes from the class of 2020 speaks with Ron on Martin Luther King Jr. Day in January 2020. They talk about how his career progressed from Wall Street to being unemployed and homeless, to today working as the COO for Care for the Homeless in New York City. Throughout these changes one thing has remained constant, his dedication to giving back to the Holy Cross community.

They discuss Ron's motivations for helping create the ALANA Mentoring Program and the Bishop Healy Emergency Fund, in order to offer students of color the resources and support that he didn't have.

A captivating and motivating speaker, Ron shares stories about the life experiences at Holy Cross that teach you how to persevere through hard times and succeed in life.

Christian Haynes:

Welcome everybody, my name is Christian Haynes, class of 2020, woo woo, that's this year. That's this year. I have here with me, the great Ron Lawson, class of '75. Ron you could introduce yourself, even though I just did.

Ron Lawson:

Yeah, I'm Ron Lawson. I would say I'm not great but I would say I'm from the great class of '75.

Christian Haynes:

I like '75, I don't know why. I always told my mum I wanted to be born that year.

Ron Lawson:

Oh really?

Christian Haynes:

I'm a more old-school guy. Young but got the old school. What was so great about '75?

Ron Lawson:

'75 had the unique distinction of being the last all-male class to enter Holy Cross. So my class was all-male when we entered as freshmen in '71. We all lived on the same dorm. The majority of African-Americans on campus, who were all male at the time, it's probably about 80 or 90 of us and most of us lived on Healy Three. So I love the fact that the class of '75 has that distinction as being the last all-male class before that transition took place. It was challenging, both on the part of the women... I don't know how they did it. I don't know how those early classes endured us because a lot of us weren't as considerate and kind as we realized we should have been in retrospect.

Christian Haynes:

Right. Now did you guys stay together all four years, in the same dorms?

Ron Lawson:

Yeah, I lived in Healy Three all four years.

Christian Haynes:

Really?

Ron Lawson:

Had a couple of different roommates but there was a core group of us that we used to call the fellas. About five or six of us and we all did everything together, everything from going to Kimball, to eating at Hogan, to going to parties at Welsey and Mount Holyoke and Smith and Simmons and Wheelock and Emmanuel.

Christian Haynes:

The list goes on. The list goes on.

Ron Lawson:

Yeah, on and on and on.

Christian Haynes:

That's interesting that you guys stayed in one dorm, all four years. What dorms weren't there that are here now.

Ron Lawson:

Figge...

Christian Haynes:

Yeah that's the newest one.

Ron Lawson:

...wasn't here. There's a new dorm that just opened a few years ago, the apartments?

Christian Haynes:

Oh the Edge Apartments, no that's...

Ron Lawson:

Yeah, Figge and...

Christian Haynes:

Williams.

Ron Lawson:

Williams. Figge and Williams.

Christian Haynes:

Yeah, well I think Williams is...

Ron Lawson:

Williams is older than Figge and Figge... neither one of those were open. A little sidebar is, Williams was named after Edward Bennett Williams, who was a prominent attorney, a Holy Cross alumni, also the owner of the Baltimore Orioles and I think he may have owned the Washington Redskins also but he was a very prominent D.C. attorney and one of his mentees was Ted Wells who was in the class of '72, who was in school when I was here and Ted followed Edward Bennett Williams' model for success and Ted, in his own right, is a very prominent corporate attorney, got a joint degree from Harvard Law School and Business School.

Christian Haynes:

Wow. Yeah, earlier we talked about the connections Holy Cross provides to each student. I was told that freshman year... every year but freshman year I didn't believe it until I saw it... especially when I had my experience with you. I would love to get into that a little bit later but first, tell me about, how was it growing up in... correct me if I'm wrong, Winditch?

Ron Lawson:

Wyandanch.

Christian Haynes:

Wyandanch, Long Island.

Ron Lawson:

Wyandanch was a predominantly African-American community in Suffolk County on the South Shore of Long Island and it's where my parents had the foresight to move us, when I was infant, from the South Bronx because my father felt there was too much violence and he wanted a more safe and secure environment for us so he was able to buy a house. As I tell people, my father would constantly tell the story that he couldn't afford this house and it was $10,000 and he couldn't afford it because, even though he served in World War Two in the Philippines, because of Federal law. African-American veterans were not allowed to apply for a G.I. Bill, which provided low-interest loans to secure housing for veterans of World War Two. So he and my mother used to drive out from the Bronx and take these rides through the countryside on Long Island. He said, one day they drove by this house, which was a model home for where we moved in, he and my mother toured it. The real estate agent told him it was $10,000. He and my mother walked back to the car, he told my mother we can't afford it, she started crying and he sat in the car for five minutes trying to calm her and literally got out the car, walked back in the house and gave the real estate agent $10.

Christian Haynes:

Wow.

Ron Lawson:

That's how we secured our first home on Long Island and that's where I grew up.

Christian Haynes:

Wow.

Ron Lawson:

A very comfortable, lower middle-class environment. As I was telling some people earlier, I didn't realize that I was poor until I came to Holy Cross because all my needs had always been met. So it was a very interesting, holistic upbringing. I went to a really good public school, North Babylon High School. Some of the folks I graduated with... I went to Holy Cross, the other guys, one of my best friends went to Tufts, one guy went to Naval Academy, one guy went to Air Force Academy, so we were going to very good schools as a result of our North Babylon education.

Christian Haynes:

That's great. How was that culture shock and how...

Ron Lawson:

It wasn't for me, which I found interesting and unique. Coming to Holy Cross wasn't a culture shock for me. Coming to Holy Cross was by design, not by default. I had done well on the SATs so I was being recruited or getting letters of interest from a lot of schools including West Point, Indianapolis, Syracuse, Bucknell, College of William and Mary. I got a letter from Holy Cross but whereas all these other schools were sending me form letters, I got a personally typed letter that was signed by Gary Reed, who wound up being two years ahead of me, class of '73, wound up going to Harvard Law School and Gary obviously was part of the BSU committee at the time, that was trying to work to increase the number of African-Americans on campus. So when I got a personal letter from Holy Cross, I said well, I want to go see this place.

Ron Lawson:

Took the bus to Worcester with another friend of mine because he and I were both considering running track. When I got here and got on campus, I knew that was it. It was everything I had envisioned my college experience was to be. Ivy covered walls, small school sitting on a hill, didn't hurt that it was only 45, 50 minutes from Boston, then another 45, 50 minutes from Western Mass, so I knew I could get to Wellesley within an hour and I could get to Mount Holyoke within an hour, so that was very important to me.

Ron Lawson:

My high school was a very large high school, 2000 students, 90% white, 10% African-American. So when I got to Holy Cross and Holy Cross was 97% white with 3% African-American, it didn't phase me because that had been my whole upbringing. It was very interesting for guys like Ted and Tony Hill, class of '76 because Ted created a funnel effect for Holy Cross students coming from Calvin Coolidge High School in Washington and they followed him to Holy Cross so at one point in time, there were six or seven students from Calvin Coolidge here at Holy Cross. D.C. was totally different. D.C. was totally segregated. The schools were segregated unless you went to a private school, Calvin Coolidge, some of the other schools in the neighborhood were all African-American, so when they got to Holy Cross, they culture shock of having to deal with a majority environment was challenging to a lot of folks and some of the guys I knew dropped out because they couldn't handle it.

Christian Haynes:

Yeah, that's a good point, they may dropping out. I think as college students, that happens, it doesn't matter your background or anything like that but what made you stay? Now, you said there wasn't as much as a culture shock but I'm assuming that there had to be some kind of trials and tribulations along the way of...

Ron Lawson:

Oh, yeah, that's life. You're going to always incur trials and tribulations but I knew, at the time I was here, that I was experiencing the best time of my life. I knew I would have other good times ahead but I knew, while I was at Holy Cross, that I was experiencing four of the best years of my life and so I took it all in, I didn't leave anything on the table. I made sure I took advantage of as many opportunities as possible and it ran the gambit. It ran from going to parties in Boston to sitting, being a member of the political science club and having dinner with Archibald Cox, who was the special prosecutor for Richard M. Nixon, to one night having a campus-wide snowball fight with 26,000 people.

Christian Haynes:

Wow.

Ron Lawson:

All night long. Hunkering down behind Wheeler, crawling through the snow with a sack full of snowballs, waiting to get somebody upside the head. So no one could have had a better collegiate experience and you can talk to a lot of the folks that were with us, experienced this during the same time and a lot of them would feel the same way.

Christian Haynes:

Would you say there was a difference between the other African-American men on campus, since you guys had different backgrounds, did you notice certain differences through just the way you guys went about things?

Ron Lawson:

No, it was pretty much consistent throughout. Some of the same lingo that I used in North Babylon, that the guys from D.C. used, still played the same games growing up Ringolevio, hot peas and butter, all-

Christian Haynes:

I never heard of that... You from Brooklyn so...

Ron Lawson:

But a lot of the influences were exactly the same.

Christian Haynes:

Yeah, that's good.

Ron Lawson:

The commonality was such that, when our parents met, it was the same thing, they became friends. So no, I didn't see any difference between me and the other guys that I was going to school with.

Christian Haynes:

That's good. Now when you hear, you mentioned these names many times today in the short time that we've been together today but when you hear the names Stan Grayson, Eddie Jenkins, Clarence Thomas, those names, Ted Wells, what's the first thing that comes to your mind?

Ron Lawson:

It varies. First of all, the relationship endures and I take that for granted because it's just constant. Here's a perfect example, the Bishop Healy Committee had a farewell lunch in for Dean Millner yesterday, off-campus. Eddie came and we call ourselves the old heads because when we're around you guys there's a 40 year, 45 year gap so we know we're the old heads. So after I went to the bookstore, I was walking down here and I decided to go into the library, just to look to see how things have changed and as I'm leaving, I see a display case and in the display case is a picture of the Holy Cross football team of 1969 and so I look and I see Eddie Jenkins, take a picture and I send it, said that, on campus, in the library at the bookcase, just saw this picture, who's the young man in the second row, third from the left? So it's always those kinds of continuity of relationships and continuation of relationships. Two young men from my church will be entering Holy Cross in September and Stan and I couldn't be happier because we constantly engaged with making sure they were... applications were in, they were getting everything they needed, they were responding in an appropriate time. So now, I see this as an opportunity to have two more mentees on campus that I can help mentor over the next four years.

Christian Haynes:

That's great. I love this story but when you're mentioning Fraternity, it's like a slight bit but I know you take full pride into that, right?

Ron Lawson:

Yeah but as I said and as I told Maura and the other folks early on, I was at the tail-end of that experience, all right?

Christian Haynes:

Yeah.

Ron Lawson:

That started with these guys making one of the most bold decisions you could make as a person that young. They had decided that there were injustices on campus that affected black students disproportionately and they couldn't achieve the level of resolution that they wanted so they walked out. Went in the Hogan, had a press conference, tore up their ID cards and walked out. Among them was Art Martin, class of '70, who was the first president of the BSU and I can't even imagine the admiration the admiration these other guys must have had for him because he was a senior and he was already accepted into Georgetown Law School and Stan and Eddie and Clarence and Ted, they all told him, you don't have to go, you're already set, don't worry about it. He said, no, if one person is walking out, we're all walking out.

Christian Haynes:

RIght.

Ron Lawson:

So he was willing to sacrifice... they were willing to sacrifice their college education, he was willing to sacrifice an opportunity to matriculate Georgetown Law School. So I don't, in any way shape or form, compare with them or compare with that. Where I fall into play is, most of them except for Clarence and Art were all seniors my freshman year and we were all living on Healy Three and Eddie was a big-time football player, went on to win the Superbowl with the Miami Dolphins, Stan was getting ready to go to the University of Michigan Law School and Ted was getting ready to go to Harvard Business and Law School, four year joint degree. My claim to fame was, I showed up on Healy Three with a color TV and so that was my paragraph in the book and it was bittersweet because, I must admit, I liked the attention I got but then I realized the foolhardiness in that because Ted and Stan would kick me out my room every Sunday so they could watch Sunday football games in color and they'd make me go to the library. So...

Christian Haynes:

At least you got your work done.

Ron Lawson:

Well I tried to get my work done but I sat there for two or three hours saying, "man they kicked me out of my room, I can't even watch TV on my own TV", but I was a freshman, they were the upper-classmen so you do what you're told.

Christian Haynes:

Yeah, can't do nothing about it.

Ron Lawson:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Christian Haynes:

Yeah but I think there was a trickling effect that they had, especially with your class and the classes after that, I think you guys noticed what they did and wanted to pursue what they did, pursue that.

Ron Lawson:

Oh, definitely. Definitely.

Christian Haynes:

Pursue that legacy.

Ron Lawson:

They set the model that we all tried to become and follow suit. That was a blessing and a curse because over time, you would say to yourself, well, I'm not as successful as Ted, I'm not as successful as Stan, I'm just doing this. It took a while to say, I'm successful in my own right but what was always important was, will they be proud of me, will they be proud of my accomplishments. That was very, very important to me and the guys and the women that followed them. When they hear your name, will they speak about you with pride?

Christian Haynes:

Yeah. Seemed like there was a strong sense of brotherhood on the campus around that time.

Ron Lawson:

Oh, definitely.

Christian Haynes:

Yeah and for your class and the classes after, who were the people that you would go to whenever there was something on your mind or something you had to get off your chest or something happened, whether good or bad?

Ron Lawson:

It was pretty much Ted and Stan, for me. Even when Ted was in law school and business school, as consumed as he was, his Wife Nina, who was successful in her own right, was at Suffolk University and a lot of times, she would help counsel me because I was thinking of applying to law school. Even after school, when I'd had issues or just needed to bounce something off of someone, it would always be Ted or Stan that I would reach out to.

Christian Haynes:

Do you have any untold stories of Holy Cross, that you can think of?

Ron Lawson:

No, not... I have some I can't say publicly.

Christian Haynes:

Oh yeah, that's fine. Or your favorite story.

Ron Lawson:

Okay, my favorite story really... there's so many favorite stories. My most favorite story would have to be... I owe so much to Holy Cross. I always tell people like you and like Maura, who I think graduated in '07, that you all were going to be successful no matter what you did or no matter where you chose to go to school but you decided to go to Holy Cross so Holy Cross gets to take credit for your success. That's the reality. But going to Holy Cross... when I was here, my freshman year, my roommate was dating a young woman from New York, who was a few years younger than him, in high school and she and a bunch of her girlfriends came up for the weekend and we had one of the vacant suites in Healy Three and they all stayed there. I was dating one of her girlfriends. Then afterwards, my roommate and her broke up and over the years I would say, I wonder what ever happened to her, she was really cute and she had an odd last name, her last name was Clivert.

Ron Lawson:

So fast forward from the mid '70s to the early '90s, I'm now CFO for Mayor Dinkins in New York and one night I let the whole finance team go home early and I am processing campaign cheques to deposit in the bank the next day. So I see a cheque and it's got the name Nina Clivert on it. Well I know this has to be her so I start research... I try to find her, I get her number, I call, I leave a message. Couple of weeks later, we go out on a blind date. We go out on a couple of other days and to make a long story short, she's been my wife for the last 25 years. So it's because of Holy Cross I found my wife.

Christian Haynes:

Wow. You ever tell your roommate about that?

Ron Lawson:

Yeah, no harm, no foul. He broke up with her 1973, she and I got together in 1992.

Christian Haynes:

He does play a part in it.

Ron Lawson:

Yeah but-

Christian Haynes:

He wasn't invited to the wedding?

Ron Lawson:

Huh? No he wasn't invited to the wedding. He's all the way out in Seattle.

Christian Haynes:

That's funny. Now, what was next, after you graduated from Holy Cross?

Ron Lawson:

I didn't know. I didn't know. I was not at the top of my class, by any stretch of the imagination. I wasn't even in the middle of my class, by any stretch of the imagination. I was real close to the bottom of my class, with no stretching the imagination so I came home and I didn't have a lot of options. I didn't have the GPA to go to law school and so I worked for a year in a job that basically paid me a salary and it was something to do. At that time I decided I was going to apply to business school because two of the guys I graduated with, both went to Cornell and they were in the MBA program. So I applied to Cornell. I applied to a few other schools and I had done well on the GMATs so I got a letter from Carnegie Mellon saying that they had a pre-professional... they had a quantitative summer skills institute that I could enroll in for free and depending upon how I did in this summer skills institute, they would determine whether I could matriculate as a master's candidate and whether or not I would receive any sort of scholarship.

Ron Lawson:

It was scary because at Holy Cross, I was a political science major and one of the things Holy Cross teaches you is how to think, how to process, how to articulate and how to write. So I knew I could get in front of any audience and I could pontificate and I could speak the King's English and I could do well. I stayed as far away from quantitative courses as I possibly could because I was fearful of them. Well now I'm at CMU and I'm going to a quantitative summer skills institute so I'm confronted with my greatest fear. So the summer I was there, I had to take finite math, calculus, statistics, two computer programming courses, fundamental accounting, intermediate accounting, cost accounting and advanced accounting. I did well enough that I was actually tutoring calculus to undergraduate students by the end of the semester and I was offered a seat in the master's class and got a scholarship. So after one year of working after Holy Cross, I then went and got a master's in public management from Carnegie Mellon.

Christian Haynes:

You went from being at the bottom of the class to getting that offer of scholarship.

Ron Lawson:

Yeah and that's what I tell people. When anybody comes in my office... I prominently display all my degrees, my Holy Cross degree, my master's degree from Carnegie Mellon and then the first company that hired me after Carnegie Mellon sent me to a post-graduate program in accounting and finance at the Kellogg School, so I had that certificate on my wall also. I always tell people, it's not about me trying to show off or trying to display any arrogance. I am paying testimony to my parents, to my father who died at 57 and mother who died at 47, who I felt worked themselves into an early grave to make sure I could achieve that level of success, so that's in tribute to them.

Ron Lawson:

But yeah, that's how life is and what Holy Cross also taught me was, never give up. It was instilled in me, early on because there were a lot of challenges here where I could have... half my class, there were 34 black men in my class and half of them either flunked out or left and that 50% drop-out rate was pretty consistent through the early '70s to mid '70s. So I could have easily said, this is too hard, I'm not doing it, I'm going back to North Babylon and go to community college but Holy Cross instills in you that notion of perseverance. What I realized, when I graduated here, that I already had the suit of armor necessary to succeed in life and that played itself out at Carnegie Mellon because when I graduated from Carnegie Mellon, I knew it was the Holy Cross experience that got me to that point.

Ron Lawson:

Let me tell you a perfect example. Once again, I'm not at the top of my class, I'm struggling because I'm dealing with all these quantitative courses. We would be sitting in economics and economics class was 200/300 people in the auditorium. Now I'm not used to that. I'm used to 20 people in a class, in the basement of Fenwick or O'Kane because we used to have classrooms down there. I wasn't used to the type of economics because we were used to Samuelson, guns and butter. That was economics, I can understand that. I get to Carnegie Mellon and it's all math, it's all quantitative and it's all math. It's partial and differential equations. The professor is at the front on the video screen and he's doing computations and equations and formulas and he is trying to show us how to solve for lambda. I'm like, "what's lambda?", well nobody really knows but we're going to solve for it.

Christian Haynes:

Right.

Ron Lawson:

So I am befuddled, I am bemused, I am dismayed and I am flunking everything. Then one day, Holy Cross, being the institution that it is, teaches you perspective, teaches you how to observe. So I'm sitting in class and he puts an equation on the board and I see somebody raise their hand, "Professor Haynes, Professor Haynes", oh and he goes, so, this is how you solve for lambda, you take that purple bag and you have the black video screen and then you add it to the Holy Cross sign. "Professor Haynes, Professor Haynes", "yes Ron?", "so what you're saying, and this is intuitively speaking, is if I have a purple bag with a black sign and the Holy Cross sign, via the combination of those three elements, I will be able to solve for lambda", "that's right Ron", and I looked and I said, all he did was regurgitate what the professor said, he just said it a different way. From that day on, I was a B plus or an A student because all you had to do was regurgitate but I learned that because I learned that at Holy Cross, the perspective.

Ron Lawson:

Then I also realized my grades weren't good as the rest of the class so I needed to step up and figure out how I was going to gain an advantage. Well, I looked around and I remember when we were interviewed on campus, everybody put on their little suits and ties. I went out and got a $250 navy blue, Pierre Toussaint [intention: Pierre Cardin] double-breasted suit. Clean as the board of health. I would wear that to every job interview and at the end of my first semester, second year, when all the job offers were being made, I think I had seven job offers, which was more than anyone else in my class.

Christian Haynes:

Wow.

Ron Lawson:

So it was all those educational... it wasn't even educational experiences from Holy Cross, it was those life experiences from Holy Cross that helped me succeed.

Christian Haynes:

Right. Now, shortly after you got the scholarship for the master's program, you found out that your father had passed, right?

Ron Lawson:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Christian Haynes:

At this point, your mother had passed at the age of 17.

Ron Lawson:

Yes.

Christian Haynes:

Earlier you mentioned having the degrees in your office as a testimony to them, at that age, how do you get through that? I don't know if you have any siblings or anything like that but how were you able to get through that and how did your work or your work ethic reflect your parents?

Ron Lawson:

Well I just did. I can't even tell you how I got through it, I just did. I would love to say I had a tremendous support system but I was a moving target. I'm trying to pursue my career or move forward professionally, the way I know my parents would have wanted me to. When my father passed, I must admit, for a minute, I said, well I'm not... it was a three week break between the end of the summer skills institute at Carnegie Mellon and me entering the fall class and I wasn't going to go back. After my mother's death, my father remarried, my step-mother said, that's what he would have wanted you to do so you can't not go back. He only had $3,000 in life insurance, she gave me $300 and so off I was back to Carnegie Mellon.

Ron Lawson:

I was struggling academically and broke because I had no financial support. If we're having breakfast and you offered me a bowl of Kellogg's cornflakes now, I'd want to fight you because that's all I could afford to eat for two years. Coming from that experience, I realized well, if you can do this, you can do anything. What my parents instilled in me is no giving up, you don't quit. I saw it with my mother and her battle with breast cancer. I saw my father's angst after she passed and how he basically raised me as a single parent until I went off to Holy Cross. So those object lessons stuck with me and I just had the mindset that there was no challenge I couldn't overcome.

Christian Haynes:

So after Carnegie Mellon, you ended up in Wall Street or was there...?

Ron Lawson:

Yeah, spent 15 years in financial services with what is now Ernst & Young, Deloitte & Touche, Chase, JPMorgan Chase, Salomon Brothers, I did that for 15 years until I got laid off. That was my great epiphany because... this is what... you may have heard the term, in the past, the go-go '80s, this is during a period of time where everyone's making a ton of money on Wall Street, everyone's living extravagantly, it's all about self, there's nothing about, how do you live your life to benefit others. It's like, how do I get mine? I was caught up, head over heels, in it. Wearing the fine clothing, the expensive clothing, going out to the expensive restaurants, going to the theater two or three times a week. Next thing I know, I have lost my job and in my arrogance I said, well this will only take me a couple or three weeks to get another job because I have a Holy Cross degree, I have a Carnegie Mellon degree and I have a post-graduate certificate from the Kellogg School and I have 15 years of work experience on Wall Street. Didn't happen.

Ron Lawson:

I realized that, in retrospect, that this was God's way of humbling me because it's very timely that we're having this conversation today on Martin Luther King Day because I was able to come out of losing my job, losing everything I own, being homeless, to in a six month period of time, being the CFO for the Mayor of New York because I had a close network of friends that were very influential and because I met my minister at the time, who was Reverend Doctor Paul Smith and he was a senior pastor of First Presbyterian Church in Brooklyn Heights. Paul is the person that introduced Martin Luther King to Andrew Young and Paul is a really good friend of Andrew Young and Paul was a key proponent, a key participant in the Civil Rights Movement, he was part of the group that got beaten crossing the Edmund Pettus Bridge. Paul was the one that would call me over... because I lived about two or three miles from the church and I'd walk over because I couldn't afford to take the subway or a cab and we'd sit, we'd talk, we'd pray and he's constantly telling me, hard times don't last always. Tough times don't last, tough people do.

Ron Lawson:

So that's what got me out of that but once again, it was the Holy... one of the things Holy Cross also teaches you is, you are fortified to accomplish anything and as such, when somebody offers an opportunity to you that you might not necessarily be comfortable with or think you have the background for, you jump at it because you know you'll figure it out and that's what happened to me. My best friend at the time had run both of Harold Washington's mayoral campaigns and was in New York, he was the vice chair of an investment banking firm and Mayor Dinkins asked him to be the treasurer, campaign treasurer for his re-election campaign. Ken and I had dinner one night and Ken asked me if I would serve as the CFO because as Ken... and he was a real funny guy, as Ken put it, he said, "you know in New York state law, a political campaign treasurer can go to prison if there's misappropriations of funds of malfeasance", and he said, "so I need you to set up the financial infrastructure so you can watch my back because I am too pretty to go to prison". So that's how I got there. So I wound up managing an $11,000,000 political campaign, had about 15 staff members.

Christian Haynes:

So I think that definitely had an effect on what you do now and being the...

Ron Lawson:

That did, yeah.

Christian Haynes:

Yeah. Being the COO of Care for the Homeless, which I was a part of for one summer, as an intern. Not only that, I'm thinking about it right now, you taught me a lot but the biggest thing that I took away from you during that summer was the way you treated other homeless people. A lot of people, especially in New York City, homeless people get treated as if they're not a human being, nothing, just on the street but the way you would interact with them, and it's not just giving them money or giving them food, you would actually interact with them and I remember me, you and Nikai was coming from dinner one time and you told us just to go to the office and I just felt like you were going to a business meeting. You made it seem like you were going to a business meeting.

Christian Haynes:

Then I saw you going... I don't know the guy's name but it was in the corner of the same block that the office is on and you was talking to him, you was talking to him for a good minute and that right there just showed me the type of person you were and I guess it showed me a little bit what you learned yourself when you was homeless yourself for those six months and it was just like... and I'm glad. I'm really glad I had that opportunity and it just opened my eyes to a lot of things. I'm pretty sure that's one of the messages you try to tell people, in a way.

Ron Lawson:

Yeah. Holy Cross espouses and the model/mantra is, "men and women for others". So I don't want to have this journey and not be of service to others. It's not just selfishness in the sense of, well people helped me and I want to help other people, it's that it's what we're supposed to do. It's how, I think, an individual is supposed to live their life. The road to success is a journey, not a destination. In my view, you are never completely successful until you're put to rest and somebody is eulogizing you and says the world was a better place because you were here, because you lived in it. I take the work I do at Care for the Homeless differently in the sense that I am selfish because those 15 years on Wall Street, I always felt good about making a lot of money but I never felt good about what I was doing for someone else because I didn't care. So having to be humbled was God's way of telling me, you need to start focusing on other folks and not yourself.

Ron Lawson:

So I have the best experience in the world, I'm helping the folks who are least among us to get back on their feet, to find meaning in their own lives and because I go to work every day, I can honestly say, when I go home and I lay my head on the pillow at night, somebody somewhere is a little better off because I went to work today and I like the way that makes me feel.

Christian Haynes:

That's great. I remember you telling me that. You think if you didn't have that humbling experience, you would have went from business to non-profit, as you did?

Ron Lawson:

I don't know. I think I would have gotten to a point where I would have gotten tired of Wall Street and looked for other opportunities but I don't know when and where that would have come. So I think God just accelerated it for me.

Christian Haynes:

Has it always been instilled in you to give back or to want to give back?

Ron Lawson:

It has but not as prominent as it became once I started working for the mayor because that was a turning point for me because now I was working for the mayor of New York and no matter what your political persuasions... he was running against Rudy Giuliani and we literally saw it as good guy versus the bad guy, that's how we saw it. It was the very first time that I worked for a purpose and not just a paycheck. My wife will tell you, the night the mayor lost, we were engaged and we were living together at the time, we went to her house after the campaign because we were in the mayor's suite at the Sheraton and we couldn't stay any longer because we could tell he was losing so we went home and I started looking at the returns on the TV and after about three or four minutes I started crying and I couldn't stop crying. Then the TV went black. Never happened before that, never happened after that. So I think it was a sign where I just didn't have the emotional capacity to deal with him losing. So that's some of what I feel at Care for the Homeless, this is not just collecting a salary, there's a purpose behind the paycheck. It's a gratifying experience.

Christian Haynes:

Yeah. You've done a lot of great things, in my eyes, as an alumnus of the school. One of the things you helped do is created the ALANA Mentor Program. I've benefited form that. I've met a couple of alumnus who I still keep in touch with today, we're great... I actually just had a conversation with one of them. What made you want to create that?

Ron Lawson:

I want y'all to have what I never had, on a variety of levels. The ALANA Mentoring Program, that's why I was also key in starting the Bishop Healy Emergency Fund because a lot of times we don't have the resources that other folks on campus have and a lot of times the resources we need aren't huge. There's some kids that can't take the GMATs or can't take the LSATs or can't take the MCATs because they can't pay the application fee.

Christian Haynes:

Right.

Ron Lawson:

So the ALANA... the Bishop Healy Emergency Fund can do that. Can't get home for a winter break, come from the south and don't have a winter coat. The mentoring program, as I told you, who did I counsel with? Ted and Stan. Ted and Stan. The mentoring program, I thought, was an opportunity to connect more students of color on campus with alumni of color who were in the same fields that the students may have an interest in. I just thought it was a necessary addition to a student's collegiate experience here at Holy Cross.

Christian Haynes:

You know how it's set up?

Ron Lawson:

How it's set up?

Christian Haynes:

Yeah, how people are matched with the alumni.

Ron Lawson:

Well I know how I started it and... I called Amy Murphy in career development and she told me she thought it was a good idea and she said okay, here are some student's names that said they're interested and here's the list of alumni. I literally sat in my living room for two or three days, looking at alumni careers and their careers and then the students and what their interests were and started matching them. So now, I don't know how it's evolved, I know it has on some level.

Christian Haynes:

Yeah, similar it's just I thought it was interesting that the names aren't on the list, it's just the occupation and where they're located and the year that they graduated. So for us students it's like, we don't know who's who, we just know a little bit about them and you know the things that they've done on campus, whether that's sports or BSU or anything like that. So I thought that was pretty interesting.

Ron Lawson:

Yeah, it is.

Christian Haynes:

The Bishop Healy Fund too, a lot of people have benefited over that. I know somebody who just came home from an immersion trip and told me that it was a life changing trip and it was because of the Bishop Healy Fund so we want to thank you... I think I speak for everybody when we say, we want to thank you and those who have helped you create the Bishop Healy Fund and the ALANA Mentoring Program.

Ron Lawson:

So I appreciate the thanks but I'll tell you, like I was told by my friends that helped me out of that tough period of time, when you start moving forward in your career, make sure you reach back and make sure you do it for someone else.

Christian Haynes:

Yeah. Yeah I honestly think that was... the ALANA Mentoring Program, that was the thing that made me want to give back. I haven't graduated yet but I've told myself that, when I get to where I want to be, I want to give back.

Ron Lawson:

I would challenge you on that and say, don't wait until you get to where you want to be. Start now because you being out of school a year or two, you're going to be far more relatable to a sophomore or junior on campus than I am, 45 years out. So don't think you don't have anything to offer just because you haven't achieved what successes based upon what you define it to be. And, stay connected. I know you and Maura are going to say, oh here he goes again, because I know I'm preaching to the converted but I always like to state, that if you are a graduate of The College of the Holy Cross and you don't take advantage of the alumni network, you have discounted your degree by 25%.

Christian Haynes:

Yeah I definitely hear that and I will do as you say.

Ron Lawson:

How did you get your job last summer?

Christian Haynes:

Last summer or the summer before?

Ron Lawson:

Last summer.

Christian Haynes:

Last summer? Same story as the other one anyways.

Ron Lawson:

No, who'd you work for?

Christian Haynes:

Huh?

Ron Lawson:

Who'd you work for?

Christian Haynes:

Schone Malliet

Ron Lawson:

And what is he?

Christian Haynes:

He is an alumnus.

Ron Lawson:

From what class? '74.

Christian Haynes:

I thought '76?

Ron Lawson:

'74.

Christian Haynes:

Yeah.

Ron Lawson:

The point I'm making is, your last two summer jobs came because you reached out to the Holy Cross alumni.

Christian Haynes:

Right. Actually, everybody that I've spoke to to get those two jobs were alumnus or alumni.

Ron Lawson:

See?

Christian Haynes:

Interesting. But yeah, like I said before, I didn't know the strength of... the power of the purple.

Ron Lawson:

Yep. There's nothing like it.

Christian Haynes:

Yeah until when I needed to start connecting with people because I needed a job for the summer or anything like that. Yeah, what would you say is your mission statement, if you were to have one? If you don't have one, now's your time to create one.

Ron Lawson:

Personal mission statement?

Christian Haynes:

However you want to take it.

Ron Lawson:

To share as much as I can with as many people as I can. I take umbrage and I take it personally whenever I speak to a Holy Cross alumnus who tells me they didn't have the same experience I had. It bothers me when somebody walks away from this hill and says it wasn't four of the best years of their life. I know it can't be the case 100% of the time but I would hope it's the overriding case 98% of the time and those occurrences are few and far between. So I feel it's incumbent upon me to do everything I can to give back to the students who are on campus now so they can walk away saying it was four of the best years of their life. So whereas you have other alum who have interests to serve on the board or serve on the alumni association board, which I have done, I really get excited about connecting personally with students on campus, while they're on campus.

Christian Haynes:

How would you say the Holy Cross mission statement has effected your work?

Ron Lawson:

It makes it easy for me to say I come from an institution like this because this institution's motto is, "men and women for others", and that is what this school is known for and how the students live their lives on campus. So it's very interesting and another example of how deep the network runs is, Yankelly Villa, who you may know, was one of the presidential scholars last year. She posted on LinkedIn that she was coming to New York to get a master's degree at the new school and she needed a job, I saw it, she is now my operations assistant. Harry Thomas, class of '78, former ambassador to Bangladesh, Philippines, Zimbabwe, sits on the board of trustees, I asked him to serve on our board, he's on our board, he chairs our benefit committee and as a result of the people he knows, we now have a relationship with Ben Vereen, who's a two time Tony Award winner who is now going to headline a huge gala for us to celebrate our 35th anniversary in the fall. It is so bad that my boss, George Nashak who's a Columbia graduate, calls Care for the Homeless, Holy Cross South.

Christian Haynes:

In fairness, that's a good thing.

Ron Lawson:

Yeah, it's a very good thing for us.

Christian Haynes:

Yeah. All right so, we're going to do a little speed round.

Ron Lawson:

Okay.

Christian Haynes:

Just ask you questions and you can answer as fast you can. So if you was to change two things about Holy Cross, what would they be?

Ron Lawson:

Number of African-American students on campus.

Christian Haynes:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Ron Lawson:

And... figuring out how to keep it from snowing so much here during the winter.

Christian Haynes:

Impossible.

Ron Lawson:

Yeah.

Christian Haynes:

One year, it didn't snow as much. I didn't like it because you know we still have classes when it snows.

Ron Lawson:

That's another thing. You don't understand, y'all be shutting down and closing school when it snows, that is like an oxymoron to me. Holy Cross is closed because it's snowed. It didn't close the four years I was here.

Christian Haynes:

You'd be surprised how dangerous it gets.

Ron Lawson:

Oh, please.

Christian Haynes:

There's a lot of black ice...

Ron Lawson:

I must admit, when my father brought me up, he brought me up, dropped me off and then he came back later in the fall, towards the end of the fall for a football game and he saw the maintenance crew putting up the long, red, metal poles with the diamonds on top on the fire hydrants and he said, "what is that for", I said, "Dad, I don't know", and like six weeks later I called him, I said, "Daddy, you know why they put those things on the fire hydrants?", he said, "no", I said, "because the snow's so deep, they can't find them, that's the only way they can find them". So... I know the first one's far more realistic than the second.

Christian Haynes:

Yeah. Best place to eat in Worcester, back in the day?

Ron Lawson:

There was none.

Christian Haynes:

Really? Nothing?

Ron Lawson:

No.

Christian Haynes:

Not Miss Woo's?

Ron Lawson:

McDonald's. That's pretty much it.

Christian Haynes:

Wait, Miss Woo's is there. Miss Worcester's Diner.

Ron Lawson:

I didn't do that. I am not going to eat any place... under a place that is called Pigeon Bridge. Where Miss Woo is, that bridge, they used to call it Pigeon Bridge.

Christian Haynes:

Oh, did not know that.

Ron Lawson:

Yeah.

Christian Haynes:

Makes a lot of sense.

Ron Lawson:

There you go.

Christian Haynes:

All right, best place to eat in Worcester now?

Ron Lawson:

Oh, Sole Proprietor.

Christian Haynes:

Actually been there, it's pretty good.

Ron Lawson:

Yeah.

Christian Haynes:

Would you rather life as a student or life as an alum?

Ron Lawson:

Life as an alum.

Christian Haynes:

Ideal vacation spot?

Ron Lawson:

South Africa.

Christian Haynes:

Why?

Ron Lawson:

Because I haven't been.

Christian Haynes:

Okay. I was going to ask your favorite dorm but you said you spent all four years at Healy.

Ron Lawson:

Yeah.

Christian Haynes:

Favorite year?

Ron Lawson:

Every year.

Christian Haynes:

No, favorite year. What was that?

Ron Lawson:

Favorite year?

Christian Haynes:

Yeah.

Ron Lawson:

'75.

Christian Haynes:

Okay. If you were to win the lottery, what is the next thing you're doing?

Ron Lawson:

How much?

Christian Haynes:

I don't know, 100 mil.

Ron Lawson:

100 mil?

Christian Haynes:

Yeah.

Ron Lawson:

Make sure my families and friends are secured.

Christian Haynes:

I'm one of those friends.

Ron Lawson:

I'd think about it. Sit down with the school to see what their needs are. Have a conversation with Father Boroughs and Tracy Barlok and make a sensible contribution to the college that's going to help move it forward and move the mission forward and set up a need-blind scholarship program for students coming to campus.

Christian Haynes:

Favorite song or best song that reflected your time at Holy Cross?

Ron Lawson:

Theme from Shaft.

Christian Haynes:

Theme from what?

Ron Lawson:

Theme from Shaft. Isaac Hayes. That's all that was playing when I got here.

Christian Haynes:

A book you've read that has changed your perspective on life.

Ron Lawson:

Fraternity.

Christian Haynes:

Okay. If given the money needed, what would be the first thing you'd invent?

Ron Lawson:

A quicker mode of transportation from my house to work in the morning.

Christian Haynes:

You're on a road trip, who's in the car and what are you guys listening to?

Ron Lawson:

Nina, my wife, is in the car and we're listening to Stevie Wonder's Inner Visions/Fulfillingness' First Finale and Songs in the Key of Life, in sequence.

Christian Haynes:

Well, that's all I got.

Ron Lawson:

All right.

Christian Haynes:

Always a pleasure. I appreciate you coming down here and taking the time to do this, it was very exciting for me. I hope you had a good time.

Ron Lawson:

I enjoyed myself and I appreciate you asking.

Christian Haynes:

Yeah, no doubt.

Maura Sweeney:

That's our show, I hope you enjoyed hearing about just one of the many ways that Holy Cross alumni have been inspired by the mission to be men and women for, and with, others. A special thanks to today's guest and everyone at Holy Cross who has contributed to making this podcast a reality.

If you, or someone you know, would like to be featured on this podcast, please send us an email at [email protected]. If you like what you hear, then please leave us a review. This podcast is brought to you by the office of alumni relations at The College of the Holy Cross. You can subscribe for future episodes wherever you find your podcasts. I'm your host Maura Sweeney and this is Mission-Driven.

In the words of Saint Ignatius of Loyola, now go forth and set the world on fire.

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