On Wednesday, October 18, 2023 I interviewed RS (Raymond) Deeren at Schuler Books in Grand Rapids on the occasion of the publication of his first book of stories, Enough to Lose, published by Wayne State University Press. These stories take place in the Thumb of Michigan, and Raymond is a smart, generous writer. Many of his "Thumb" buddies, transplants from Caro, Michigan, were in the audience.

The introduction was from Sadie, of Schuler Books. I apologize for fiddling with the sound control during the recording. I won't do that again, because it caused the sound to go in and out.