This week, we're joined by Ella Goldsmith, a rugby referee from New South Wales who is in Perth to ref the HSBC SVNS tournament. Together we talk about:

• How she got into playing rugby later in life
• Her transition from player to referee
• How she fits training in around her job and life
• Why the Bronco is worse than a the beep test
• The rise of women's sports over the past few years

But first we CRAP on about:

• Hayden's long run streak coming to an end
• Shannon being THAT person running through the suburbs with a vest
• Hayden being interested in doing an ironman

Follow us on Instagram and join the conversation - @casualrunnerspod