Join Michael McRay as he continues his conversation with emotional researcher Karla McLaren, diving deeper into how emotions serve as guides rather than problems to solve. Karla explains that when emotions feel overwhelming, it's often about our lack of skills to work with them rather than the intensity itself. She reframes depression as an intelligent system that removes energy to redirect us from destructive paths. Their conversation reveals how toxic positivity isolates those experiencing intense emotions, while slightly depressed people often see reality more clearly than eternally optimistic ones. Karla introduces "narrative completion"—how witnessing recovery and resolution is essential for healing, from trauma workers to personal relationships. In this episode, they also discuss:

• How to distinguish healthy internal shame from toxic external shaming messages
• Why intense emotions often indicate disconnection from parts of ourselves that need healing
• How narrative completion helps heal trauma and unfinished emotional business
• Why we're drawn to serial stories during times of cultural uncertainty

Coming Up Soon

• LOW TICKET ALERT! STORY 2025 - October 9th and 10th in Nashville, TN at the Schermerhorn (use code PODCAST100 for $100 your ticket!)
• Experiential Narrative Practice certification training - October 6th-8th
• Michael's book "The Wild Way: Navigating the Space Between the Old Story and the New" releasing in October

Resources Mentioned

• Karla McLaren
• Embracing Anxiety, The Art of Empathy and The Language of Emotions
• Empathy Academy
• Enjoying these conversations? Join The Circle!

If you or your loved one is experiencing suicidal ideation, please contact a mental health professional as soon as possible and seek help. You are not alone. If you are experiencing a mental health, suicide, or substance use crisis, or any other emotional distress, call or text 988 or chat online at 988lifeline.org/chat.