Tune in as Michael McRay and Harris III explore the complex relationship between emotions and storytelling, diving into whether we're primarily emotional beings who tell stories, or story beings who experience emotions. Harris shares how his childhood survival mechanism of entertaining others to manage their emotional states shaped his career path, while Michael reflects on his "emotions epiphany" through Karla McLaren's work. They challenge the common phrase "story follows state," arguing instead for a circular relationship where stories create emotional states and emotional states influence the stories we tell ourselves. Their conversation examines how both emotions and imagination remain active throughout our lives, even when redirected toward anxiety and catastrophizing rather than creative expression. In this episode, they also discuss:

• How the Irish language recognizes emotions as temporary states ("there is sadness on me") rather than permanent identities ("I am sad")
• Why understanding emotions as intelligent messengers rather than problems to solve transforms our relationship with difficult feelings
• How worry represents a misuse of imagination
• Why anxious people possess valuable scenario-planning superpowers for creative problem-solving

Coming Up Soon

• LOW TICKET ALERT! STORY 2025 - October 9th and 10th in Nashville, TN at the Schermerhorn (use code PODCAST100 for $100 your ticket!)
• Experiential Narrative Practice certification training - October 6th-8th
• Conversation with Kaitlin Curtice
• Michael's book "The Wild Way: Navigating the Space Between the Old Story and the New" releasing in October

Resources Mentioned

• Karla McLaren
• Don't Believe Everything You Think
• Enjoying these conversations? Join The Circle!