In this episode I chat all things user-centred design with Toby Avery, chief digital information officer at Surrey and Borders Partnership NHS Foundation Trust. Toby shares the story of how an idea and an experiment with design has turned into a trust wide approach to designing for the outcome with multi-disciplinary fusion teams. Toby and his team have gone as far as designing SystmOne user interfaces for clinical teams that match their workflow, resulting in high levels of satisfaction with the electronic patient record - an unusual thing to pull off in the NHS! We also discuss how you create a culture of product, recruit and retain user-centred design roles in the NHS and challenges in building a diverse workforce.