The Philmont "leadership laboratory" has helped teach generations of participants and staff valuable lessons that can be applied throughout one's career. Our guests today are former Air Force Chief of Staff General Dave Goldfein and U.S. Air Force Academy Professor Thomas Swaim who have applied the lessons they learned in their youth to the highest levels of leadership within the United States Air Force. Goldfein, served as the 21st Chief of Staff from 2016 to 2020 and was inducted as a distinguished Philmont Staff Alumni in 2019. Swaim, who is now the Military and Strategic Studies Department head at the Academy, now works with Cadets to integrate the Philmont experience into their future influence as military officers.