The pandemic showed us that change is non-optional. But what remains to be figured out is how to make his change good and lasting. With our guest Ruud Janssen, the co-author of “Event Design Handbook” and “Design to Change” we discuss what it takes to implement change you wish for. We deliberate what is more important, process or outcome, and we look into events as pivotal moments for change. We also wonder whether it’s possible to design for how people spend time at work.