On this episode of Free Range, Mike Livermore interviews Gerald Torres, a professor at the Yale School of the Environment and Yale Law School and Director of the Yale Center for Environmental Justice. Torres explores the connections between environmental law and social justice from a scholarly and practical perspective.

The discussion begins with the Yale Center of Environmental Justice and its efforts to link together environmental justice initiatives across the university and community, including with local Native American tribes . (0:53 – 8:02) This raises the question of how to define work that relates to environmental justice. (8:06 – 14:11) This issue partly implicates whether environmental justice issues are a subset of a broader set of social justice claims or if they are distinctive from other areas. For Torres, one distinction is that the environment requires a broader and deeper perspective. (14:15 – 19:30) Another distinction is the focus of the EJ community on governmental decision making processes. (19:35 – 23:39)

The conversation turns to Bill Clinton’s Executive Order 12898 on environmental justice. Torres explains how the Executive Order attempted to create definitions of environmental justice communities and told agencies to incorporate environmental justice concerns in their basic processes. He compares the results of the executive order to the National Environmental Policy Act, which also had an emphasis on improving decision-making. (23:40 – 29:00) Torres emphasizes that the Executive Order responded to a broader social movement that grew out of social activism and communities mobilizing together. (29:01 – 30:57)

Livermore and Torres then discuss the relationship between environmental justice and political polarization over environmental issues. They reflect on the former bipartisan history of environmental protection and conservation and how opposition to environmentalism in the Republican party has grown increasingly intense in recent years. (31:00 – 39:00) Torres worries that the partisan nature of this debate will obscure the environmental successes that have been achieved over the last two generations. (39:01 – 43:48)

A current tension in environmental law is between local impacts of transitioning to clean energy and the need to decarbonize the economy. Torres explains the common complaint that procedural parts of environmental protection slow down decision-making, which increases the cost or permanently delays projects. But these statutes also protect the voice of disadvantaged groups. They discuss how net metering disputes in California have raised important justice issues as well. (43:50 – 54:00).

Torres reflects on the question of how well the current environmental movement has responded to EJ concerns. Torres, who is a trustee for Natural Resources Defense Council and is on the board for Earth Day, says both of these organizations have recognized the importance of integrating environmental justice concerns in the way they think about the environment. (54:02 – 57:45)

The conversation closes with Livermore asking Torres what makes him hopeful in light of the environmental challenges we face. Torres states that the broad recognition that we have to act on these issues, the social commitment in many places to environmental education, and his experience working with environmental justice communities have given him hope. (57:47 – 1:00:52)