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S1E7 - unrealistic + unethical scenarios in grey's anatomy
why do some premeds hate on people who watch grey's anatomy? in this episode, i answer this question alongside my own personalised list of the unrealistic (i.e would never happen in the NHS) and unethical (i.e the GMC would catch you faster than you can say "i did CPR on a DNR patient") scenarios. hope yall love this little fun ramble i put together <3
☆ SOCIALS ☆
my website: themediocredoctor.square.site
instagram: @medicmornings @themediocredoctor
tiktok: @stinkybluebells
email: [email protected]
youtube: themediocredoctor
Hi guys. Good morning and welcome back to another episode of medic mornings. I'm your host Fiona and today I'm going to be talking about Grey's Anatomy, which is my absolute favorite comfort show. Right now, I've watched it around like two years ago, so I'm pretty familiar with all the characters I've watched up to season 8 and refused to go any further than that. Cuz that's when it started going downhill. I'm going to be talking about the perceptions of Grey's Anatomy within the medical community as well as what they represent and accurately perhaps any of the unethical scenarios with in there. It's going to be a ride. So buckle up and let's get started. Okay, so the first thing I'm going to be talking about is why people hate other people who watch Grey's Anatomy. And this is especially especially as a pre-medical students. So I remember when I was pre-med, like, I feel like whenever I said, oh, I love watching Grey's Anatomy. I will also get a lot of like reactions. Like oh, you're just going into medicine just because you watch Grey's Anatomy. And I think there's always that perception. That's when someone watch Grey's Anatomy. They, they don't understand the idealistic, you know, the glorified and the rose-tinted perception of medicine that is completely not true. You can watch a TV show while understanding that is not the case in real life. You can also watch a TV show just for fun and you don't have to like make everything your career and you can watch TV shows like just for fun just for humor is just for bags. Just Jokes. You don't have to. You don't have to take it so seriously and I have two reasons why I think people hate pre-med to watch Grey's. Anatomy of the first one is that they think you're in it for the luxurious the hot sexy seeing the relationships and how glorified it is. So I know Grey's Anatomy like it's probably the number one medical TV show. I know another one called Chicago, Med is a lot more realistic but Grey's Anatomy is so popular because it fits in with a narrative. Doctors are so sexy medicine as such a, you know, such a sexy profession and in reality, it's that's not true at all. But people think that's, you go in for the money for everything that Grey's portrays which is not the case in real life. The second reason why people hate Prima to enjoy Grey's Anatomy is because of medical people being 100% altruistic and I think that because the show is portrayed as very dramatic and very romanticized that people think that pre-meds are only in it for that kind of lifestyle and in a career where you're supposed to give your all your 110% to your patients to the safety of your patient and to prioritize them over everything including yourself that is seen as selfish. I think that's also another reason why I like actual medical people hate Grey's Anatomy, so much is because it depicts it in, such a different light. The public really doesn't know the extent to which Health Care is so different and so far stretched from what it's actually portrayed. As I mean, Shows like Grey's Anatomy just undermine the entire profession. So it's actually okay to be selfish in your medical career. I think putting yourself first and put in what you're good at first end, put in your mental health and prioritizing yourself over patience, is definitely a mindset that everyone should have. Honestly, I think that I talked about this before, but medicine people are held to a higher standard than the rest of the population, competitiveness and jealousy. And like, just comparison in general, is such a big bang within the medical community. And a lot of people will do, whatever it takes to scoring you to put you down. And if it takes just a silly little show, a silly little TV show to put you down, then they take that as an opportunity. And so for my medicine girl, he's out there keep watching. Knocked me, keep fantasizing and romanticizing it because life is too short to not watch TV shows you like. And yeah I just love like even as a medical student, I feel like in the future, I'll just have a rough day at work and really struggle with medical school, but when I come home, I'm going to have this conference show. Eat my dinner. What about Grey's Anatomy? And it's going to be such a fun life. I feel like This part is going to have a lot of spoilers, so if you haven't walked past season 8, then this is not the episode for you. So just click away. But if you do like spoilers or if you've already watched the entire like, eight seasons then, keep listening to the first scenario that really irked me and what prompted me to start this episode. It's when is he cut the lvad wire? And basically, I don't know exactly what the lvad wire does. I think it's something to do with like the heart and the is like a artificial pacemaker or something like that. Feel free to correct me. But basically, when she cut the lvad wire, she just said she quit and then she left. But then she persuaded the chief of surgery to come back. And she just got a slap on the wrist like, honestly, that is so absurd. I feel like that just shows that General public who are watching this. They don't get reprimanded at all. She had the wrong intention, and a malicious, not malicious. But a definitely, a very unethical decision to put Danny to cat the patients under so much pain and his heart, literally stopped. And she as a provider definitely abused her position. So I'm surprised that she even got out of jail. Like, she didn't even have her medical license remove. She was still able to become a practitioner, or physician and honestly, in real life, I think she would definitely have gone through the legalities went to Medical Court richly. It's insane. How she even got away with that and was able to start practicing within like 2 weeks. Anyways, the second scenario. I feel like is a very prominent theme within the show is sex and on call rooms and I know it sounds like It looks insane. I mean well I definitely know in reality on call rooms are like, no one has a time or energy to actually have sex in them. But I mean I'm pretty sure their stories of people doing frisky things and Encore rooms but nowadays I feel like everyone just so tired and so ready to go home to their spouses to their significant others who are actually waiting for them at home and especially since like even if you date another talk to her marry another doctor. It's very rare that your schedule is like mine. I'm sure like there are issues with you making sure your annual leave is. At the same time you take the same weekends off, but often times it's very hard because basically in the UK in medicine, you have different rotation at different horse. Who's I'm pretty sure. So, it's Often times you are at different hospitals even if you go to the same Medical School even if you have the same like deanery so it would be very hard to align your schedule. Yeah that's another thing like everyone in the TV show is so unloyal like the person with the longest standing relationship is just Meredith and Derek and Everyone else is just like hopping around with each other, everyone slept with everyone. And that's just insane to me, like, never never would have happened in real life, especially with not with like medical professionals like get yourself together. Okay, the next one is at, everyone seems to be extremely promiscuous, attractive, and single. Okay. In America, I understand that their interns, right? So they're going to be 4 years of undergrad. Four years of medical school and then they're going to be interns after that. But I'll all the time they take a so, like average to got peers, so that would be great. Let me do the math. They are 29 in the show when they're in turns, 29 years old. And I'm not saying that all 29 year olds medical interns have to be single, but there's a very big chance that a large percentage of medical interns are going to be married or in a long-standing relationship. And I kind of believe that like all the main characters were single at the beginning of the show, like, that is just completely unrealistic. And it's very difficult to imagine that they don't have, you know, they haven't met their significant other in college or university or medical school, that is strange. Okay, 4th weird thing. That is completely wrong. I wouldn't happen in real life is that they're choosing? What specialty they're going into. So I remember in the beginning. Christina was like I'm going to do cardio thoracic and Meredith didn't know what she wanted to do, but like it's been saying that they're choosing specific Specialties when they're interns in the UK. Basically, you have rotation and this is when during Foundation year one and Foundation Year to each choose specific Specialties that you want to try and you're going to spend four to six weeks and there's rotation and then you're going to switch Specialties after four to six weeks. So they don't have the authority or the power or the you know that they're not allowed to pick and choose what specialty they want. They always seem like they're complaining. Like, I have to do scut work. That's what all Insurance do, they? Most of them just do you like administrative work, typing up notes, patient notes and patient reports and generally, I don't know about America, but I think that even as an intern even in your chosen specialty like surgery, they don't have the authority to be like choosing cases that they want to do like stealing each other's cases. Like that, just not a thing and it's very strange to me, but I guess they have to make that for a TV serve. It makes for good TV and shows that they have some kind of authority over you stole my case that kind of thing. Okay. Number five, the fifth thing in Grey's Anatomy, that is completely wrong. Is that in real life? Hospital list. Don't wait in the emergency department to wait for ambulance in Grey's Anatomy. There's a lot of waiting around, like, waiting for a trauma, or waiting at the helipad, like the helicopter had. And I just found out really strange because his doctors definitely do not have the time to be waiting around to be waiting for the next, you know, accident, the next gunshot wound or something. So yeah. Ashley. I thought this was pretty funny but definitely is he would never have been able to, like spend that many resources on a deer, but I don't know if you guys remember that scene, where there was a deer who was like injured, and she had to, like, bring her interns along with her. Not only did she use those resources on a deer, a freaking deer, but she also wasted time and effort, and, like, learning time for those interns. I know, I would be pissed if my consultant decided to bring me out to save a life, but she also like wasted a lot of Human Resources. I don't know if that's the correct way to say it, but those interns are the workforce. So in the NHS that would definitely never happen, you know, everywhere is understaffed that would dress. Not happen and also is he in general was so like such a lousy doctor. Like honestly, do you remember that time when she ordered these unnecessary like scans for a patient? I'm sure did like to see these guys and everything. It was so weird just like she ordered a bunch of different scans to prove a point when they were trying to see, like who had the best case for the whole day and who would get the sparkle pager or something. But Yeah. Okay. Now I'm going to be talking about the ethics in Grey's, Anatomy. I know why it was such an issue because a lot of unethical thing just went past our noses and we just completely ignored it. Okay. So the first thing is Alex and his relationship with a patient. Also, there's a lot of scenarios where doctors are having relationships with patients, which is completely completely wrong. There, just a power Dynamic that is, you know, imbalance and it's so easy to be in that position of abuse. I remember, is he's relationship with Denny duquette, and that was just extremely, like, an ethical because as a provider and as a physician, you have to have a professional boundary, which is definitely blurred when you're pursuing a romantic relationship with them. So, you have, It's really difficult to provide diagnosis to provide medication and to see the patient and an objective light when you are in a romantic relationship because of her proximity with them. You're obviously going to think of them similar to your family and that's the same rule of doctors, not being able to diagnose and prescribe for their family is because lines are so blurred and you're going to you know exaggerate or underestimate or see symptoms differently. So yeah I think that was completely unethical and it's a very common theme in the show. I think it's just to keep the audience watching and engaging. The Knicks another Coast Mario is when dr. Addison Shepherd. So. Sheppard's wife told Izzie to keep the baby alive till the morning but the baby died. And then the next morning is he told Addison that the baby died. And then Addison said, she knew the baby was going to die, but she told is he after that this was a learning experience to not be so emotionally attached to patients because as he had like a track record of, you know, being very involved with her patients Madison made up this whole thing to just teaches you a lesson and that is so. So so unethical first off I feel like as Izzy I would be hurt but I would also emphasize deeply with the baby's mother and father. Because imagine your parents and you have a newborn baby at the hospital and you realize that is dyed. Not only did it die it died, right? As a teaching lesson to a new intern. I think, what's most unethical and the scenario is that Addison didn't notify the parents before the baby died, she had knowledge of this. She knew that the baby was going to die because of its its terminal illness or something, but she didn't notify the family, which is the first thing you should come and of do when you have a prognosis for the patients, which is the baby and The parents could have spent their 12 hours that is he was trying to look after the baby to actually spend time with her baby. Those 12 precious hours could have been spent a bit more differently and I think that's why she was unethical because she withheld, those prognosis her results. Her predictions of what might happen to the patient and she treated it as a life lesson as something that could be easily discarded and have little emotional attachment to. And I feel like it's really hard for me to describe the feeling but it's just completely and morally, and ethically wrong. Also, you know how Medical students and shadowing, work experience placements, whenever your shadowing, a GP, the GP, always has to say, I have a student here with me today. Do you mind if they sit and listen and watch, you know what shantara interaction? That's what happened at my work experience, placements, anyway, but I know that in hospital, placements as well. You have to tell the patient that there is a learning opportunity for the student watching and shadowing and being involved with your treatment of the patient, and they always have to give their verbal consent. So I feel like that was also a poor decision made by Addison where she didn't obtain the parents consent which obviously they have to give consent because they are the parents and they are the legal guardian and the baby has no decision-making abilities for themselves. So obviously the pair How to give consent. And that's probably the biggest issue here to a lesser extent. I feel like is he having that emotional trauma and you not knowing this was a learning experience, but being put through that traumatic turmoil with the baby dying in her hands, as an intern, while addison-new the entire time that the baby was going to die. It's just incredibly upsetting for both a z and a baby's parents. Okay, the fourth unethical snare that I really want to talk about is that unauthorized unauthorized. I'll talk to you by Izzy and Christina. This is hilarious when I first watch it. But honestly and unauthorised autopsy is the best way to be sued to go. And have your medical license revoked. And I say that because there are so many boundaries are crossed first off, the patient's family, specifically and explicitly said that they don't wants an autopsy to be performed. I feel like the whole like autonomy beneficent nonmaleficence Justice, the four pillars can be applied here but very Loosely since this is not the patient is the patient's family. But first, a ton of me, I think because patient is already dead. So Family has to apply autonomy. So they have their opinions, which must be followed as a provider. You're not able to force them or coerce them into anything. So doing the autopsy was unethical because they explicitly said, no, but beneficence actually in the end it kind of benefit to them because they found out there was some kind of genetic which altered them and it could be passed down to family members, but that was still an ethical. Because in terms of non maleficence, even though the patient was already dead, it is harming in that it ruins the reputation of medicine and public and it undermines the role of a free-will, it undermines the role of Physicians being on respected and Lou. Is the Public's trust and Justice. I don't think really is applicable to this. So even though Christina and Izzy found that there was some kind of complication with genetics and they were like, oh, we saved your life today but is still an excusable and they totally should have stood Okay. The next and last and ethical standard. I'm going to be talkin about today is the DNR for Izzy during her cancer. So basically, is he had a do not resuscitate order. I think as far as my memory goes, I think she had when she had cancer, she had a do-not-resuscitate, but then Alex karev her boyfriend and Doctor when she was in like respiratory distress or something or like Cardiac Arrest. He decides to keep doing chest compressions, and that's just the first thing as a physician. There's so many boundaries here. First of all, he should not have been in that room because he had a romantic relationship with her. And he obviously cares for her deeply. Then that would override his mental abilities to think as a physician. And to think as her provider first Foremost and he just completely like this regards. Her decision to do a DNR. Dnr's are put in place for a reason, especially since she was at stage 4 cancer. She was a terminally ill patients, you know, this is something that people don't usually take very lightly during chest compressions. There are many other injuries that can form that can harm the patient. So, for example, displace ribs, you can actually break their ribs or their sternum, which can directly injure the heart and the lungs, and that is definitely something that is taken into account when signing a DNR. So by disregarding the DNR, Alex also puts his own selfish needs ya, even though it's true. Only romantic at first glance, I feel like it's just very idealistic. And in real life, he would probably have lost his medical license. He knew exactly what he was doing yet. He just chose to break all the ethical boundaries. All right, sir, that's the end of my rent for today. I hope you enjoy listening to my very cringy long explanation of why Grey's Anatomy is still the best show. Despite all of its flaws and it's an ethical scenario and all of its inaccuracy is I still love it. If you enjoyed please remember to follow me on Instagram at the mediocre doctor and at medic morning. I do a lot of Q and A's so make sure that phone to keep an eye for that. Make sure to check out my website the mediocre doctor that's where that sides. If you want to purchase my notes or contact me or DM me. Remember all my DMs are always open. And Yeah, that's it for the day. See you next time. Bye bye.
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By medbyfiowhy do some premeds hate on people who watch grey's anatomy? in this episode, i answer this question alongside my own personalised list of the unrealistic (i.e would never happen in the NHS) and unethical (i.e the GMC would catch you faster than you can say "i did CPR on a DNR patient") scenarios. hope yall love this little fun ramble i put together <3
☆ SOCIALS ☆
my website: themediocredoctor.square.site
instagram: @medicmornings @themediocredoctor
tiktok: @stinkybluebells
email: [email protected]
youtube: themediocredoctor
Hi guys. Good morning and welcome back to another episode of medic mornings. I'm your host Fiona and today I'm going to be talking about Grey's Anatomy, which is my absolute favorite comfort show. Right now, I've watched it around like two years ago, so I'm pretty familiar with all the characters I've watched up to season 8 and refused to go any further than that. Cuz that's when it started going downhill. I'm going to be talking about the perceptions of Grey's Anatomy within the medical community as well as what they represent and accurately perhaps any of the unethical scenarios with in there. It's going to be a ride. So buckle up and let's get started. Okay, so the first thing I'm going to be talking about is why people hate other people who watch Grey's Anatomy. And this is especially especially as a pre-medical students. So I remember when I was pre-med, like, I feel like whenever I said, oh, I love watching Grey's Anatomy. I will also get a lot of like reactions. Like oh, you're just going into medicine just because you watch Grey's Anatomy. And I think there's always that perception. That's when someone watch Grey's Anatomy. They, they don't understand the idealistic, you know, the glorified and the rose-tinted perception of medicine that is completely not true. You can watch a TV show while understanding that is not the case in real life. You can also watch a TV show just for fun and you don't have to like make everything your career and you can watch TV shows like just for fun just for humor is just for bags. Just Jokes. You don't have to. You don't have to take it so seriously and I have two reasons why I think people hate pre-med to watch Grey's. Anatomy of the first one is that they think you're in it for the luxurious the hot sexy seeing the relationships and how glorified it is. So I know Grey's Anatomy like it's probably the number one medical TV show. I know another one called Chicago, Med is a lot more realistic but Grey's Anatomy is so popular because it fits in with a narrative. Doctors are so sexy medicine as such a, you know, such a sexy profession and in reality, it's that's not true at all. But people think that's, you go in for the money for everything that Grey's portrays which is not the case in real life. The second reason why people hate Prima to enjoy Grey's Anatomy is because of medical people being 100% altruistic and I think that because the show is portrayed as very dramatic and very romanticized that people think that pre-meds are only in it for that kind of lifestyle and in a career where you're supposed to give your all your 110% to your patients to the safety of your patient and to prioritize them over everything including yourself that is seen as selfish. I think that's also another reason why I like actual medical people hate Grey's Anatomy, so much is because it depicts it in, such a different light. The public really doesn't know the extent to which Health Care is so different and so far stretched from what it's actually portrayed. As I mean, Shows like Grey's Anatomy just undermine the entire profession. So it's actually okay to be selfish in your medical career. I think putting yourself first and put in what you're good at first end, put in your mental health and prioritizing yourself over patience, is definitely a mindset that everyone should have. Honestly, I think that I talked about this before, but medicine people are held to a higher standard than the rest of the population, competitiveness and jealousy. And like, just comparison in general, is such a big bang within the medical community. And a lot of people will do, whatever it takes to scoring you to put you down. And if it takes just a silly little show, a silly little TV show to put you down, then they take that as an opportunity. And so for my medicine girl, he's out there keep watching. Knocked me, keep fantasizing and romanticizing it because life is too short to not watch TV shows you like. And yeah I just love like even as a medical student, I feel like in the future, I'll just have a rough day at work and really struggle with medical school, but when I come home, I'm going to have this conference show. Eat my dinner. What about Grey's Anatomy? And it's going to be such a fun life. I feel like This part is going to have a lot of spoilers, so if you haven't walked past season 8, then this is not the episode for you. So just click away. But if you do like spoilers or if you've already watched the entire like, eight seasons then, keep listening to the first scenario that really irked me and what prompted me to start this episode. It's when is he cut the lvad wire? And basically, I don't know exactly what the lvad wire does. I think it's something to do with like the heart and the is like a artificial pacemaker or something like that. Feel free to correct me. But basically, when she cut the lvad wire, she just said she quit and then she left. But then she persuaded the chief of surgery to come back. And she just got a slap on the wrist like, honestly, that is so absurd. I feel like that just shows that General public who are watching this. They don't get reprimanded at all. She had the wrong intention, and a malicious, not malicious. But a definitely, a very unethical decision to put Danny to cat the patients under so much pain and his heart, literally stopped. And she as a provider definitely abused her position. So I'm surprised that she even got out of jail. Like, she didn't even have her medical license remove. She was still able to become a practitioner, or physician and honestly, in real life, I think she would definitely have gone through the legalities went to Medical Court richly. It's insane. How she even got away with that and was able to start practicing within like 2 weeks. Anyways, the second scenario. I feel like is a very prominent theme within the show is sex and on call rooms and I know it sounds like It looks insane. I mean well I definitely know in reality on call rooms are like, no one has a time or energy to actually have sex in them. But I mean I'm pretty sure their stories of people doing frisky things and Encore rooms but nowadays I feel like everyone just so tired and so ready to go home to their spouses to their significant others who are actually waiting for them at home and especially since like even if you date another talk to her marry another doctor. It's very rare that your schedule is like mine. I'm sure like there are issues with you making sure your annual leave is. At the same time you take the same weekends off, but often times it's very hard because basically in the UK in medicine, you have different rotation at different horse. Who's I'm pretty sure. So, it's Often times you are at different hospitals even if you go to the same Medical School even if you have the same like deanery so it would be very hard to align your schedule. Yeah that's another thing like everyone in the TV show is so unloyal like the person with the longest standing relationship is just Meredith and Derek and Everyone else is just like hopping around with each other, everyone slept with everyone. And that's just insane to me, like, never never would have happened in real life, especially with not with like medical professionals like get yourself together. Okay, the next one is at, everyone seems to be extremely promiscuous, attractive, and single. Okay. In America, I understand that their interns, right? So they're going to be 4 years of undergrad. Four years of medical school and then they're going to be interns after that. But I'll all the time they take a so, like average to got peers, so that would be great. Let me do the math. They are 29 in the show when they're in turns, 29 years old. And I'm not saying that all 29 year olds medical interns have to be single, but there's a very big chance that a large percentage of medical interns are going to be married or in a long-standing relationship. And I kind of believe that like all the main characters were single at the beginning of the show, like, that is just completely unrealistic. And it's very difficult to imagine that they don't have, you know, they haven't met their significant other in college or university or medical school, that is strange. Okay, 4th weird thing. That is completely wrong. I wouldn't happen in real life is that they're choosing? What specialty they're going into. So I remember in the beginning. Christina was like I'm going to do cardio thoracic and Meredith didn't know what she wanted to do, but like it's been saying that they're choosing specific Specialties when they're interns in the UK. Basically, you have rotation and this is when during Foundation year one and Foundation Year to each choose specific Specialties that you want to try and you're going to spend four to six weeks and there's rotation and then you're going to switch Specialties after four to six weeks. So they don't have the authority or the power or the you know that they're not allowed to pick and choose what specialty they want. They always seem like they're complaining. Like, I have to do scut work. That's what all Insurance do, they? Most of them just do you like administrative work, typing up notes, patient notes and patient reports and generally, I don't know about America, but I think that even as an intern even in your chosen specialty like surgery, they don't have the authority to be like choosing cases that they want to do like stealing each other's cases. Like that, just not a thing and it's very strange to me, but I guess they have to make that for a TV serve. It makes for good TV and shows that they have some kind of authority over you stole my case that kind of thing. Okay. Number five, the fifth thing in Grey's Anatomy, that is completely wrong. Is that in real life? Hospital list. Don't wait in the emergency department to wait for ambulance in Grey's Anatomy. There's a lot of waiting around, like, waiting for a trauma, or waiting at the helipad, like the helicopter had. And I just found out really strange because his doctors definitely do not have the time to be waiting around to be waiting for the next, you know, accident, the next gunshot wound or something. So yeah. Ashley. I thought this was pretty funny but definitely is he would never have been able to, like spend that many resources on a deer, but I don't know if you guys remember that scene, where there was a deer who was like injured, and she had to, like, bring her interns along with her. Not only did she use those resources on a deer, a freaking deer, but she also wasted time and effort, and, like, learning time for those interns. I know, I would be pissed if my consultant decided to bring me out to save a life, but she also like wasted a lot of Human Resources. I don't know if that's the correct way to say it, but those interns are the workforce. So in the NHS that would definitely never happen, you know, everywhere is understaffed that would dress. Not happen and also is he in general was so like such a lousy doctor. Like honestly, do you remember that time when she ordered these unnecessary like scans for a patient? I'm sure did like to see these guys and everything. It was so weird just like she ordered a bunch of different scans to prove a point when they were trying to see, like who had the best case for the whole day and who would get the sparkle pager or something. But Yeah. Okay. Now I'm going to be talking about the ethics in Grey's, Anatomy. I know why it was such an issue because a lot of unethical thing just went past our noses and we just completely ignored it. Okay. So the first thing is Alex and his relationship with a patient. Also, there's a lot of scenarios where doctors are having relationships with patients, which is completely completely wrong. There, just a power Dynamic that is, you know, imbalance and it's so easy to be in that position of abuse. I remember, is he's relationship with Denny duquette, and that was just extremely, like, an ethical because as a provider and as a physician, you have to have a professional boundary, which is definitely blurred when you're pursuing a romantic relationship with them. So, you have, It's really difficult to provide diagnosis to provide medication and to see the patient and an objective light when you are in a romantic relationship because of her proximity with them. You're obviously going to think of them similar to your family and that's the same rule of doctors, not being able to diagnose and prescribe for their family is because lines are so blurred and you're going to you know exaggerate or underestimate or see symptoms differently. So yeah I think that was completely unethical and it's a very common theme in the show. I think it's just to keep the audience watching and engaging. The Knicks another Coast Mario is when dr. Addison Shepherd. So. Sheppard's wife told Izzie to keep the baby alive till the morning but the baby died. And then the next morning is he told Addison that the baby died. And then Addison said, she knew the baby was going to die, but she told is he after that this was a learning experience to not be so emotionally attached to patients because as he had like a track record of, you know, being very involved with her patients Madison made up this whole thing to just teaches you a lesson and that is so. So so unethical first off I feel like as Izzy I would be hurt but I would also emphasize deeply with the baby's mother and father. Because imagine your parents and you have a newborn baby at the hospital and you realize that is dyed. Not only did it die it died, right? As a teaching lesson to a new intern. I think, what's most unethical and the scenario is that Addison didn't notify the parents before the baby died, she had knowledge of this. She knew that the baby was going to die because of its its terminal illness or something, but she didn't notify the family, which is the first thing you should come and of do when you have a prognosis for the patients, which is the baby and The parents could have spent their 12 hours that is he was trying to look after the baby to actually spend time with her baby. Those 12 precious hours could have been spent a bit more differently and I think that's why she was unethical because she withheld, those prognosis her results. Her predictions of what might happen to the patient and she treated it as a life lesson as something that could be easily discarded and have little emotional attachment to. And I feel like it's really hard for me to describe the feeling but it's just completely and morally, and ethically wrong. Also, you know how Medical students and shadowing, work experience placements, whenever your shadowing, a GP, the GP, always has to say, I have a student here with me today. Do you mind if they sit and listen and watch, you know what shantara interaction? That's what happened at my work experience, placements, anyway, but I know that in hospital, placements as well. You have to tell the patient that there is a learning opportunity for the student watching and shadowing and being involved with your treatment of the patient, and they always have to give their verbal consent. So I feel like that was also a poor decision made by Addison where she didn't obtain the parents consent which obviously they have to give consent because they are the parents and they are the legal guardian and the baby has no decision-making abilities for themselves. So obviously the pair How to give consent. And that's probably the biggest issue here to a lesser extent. I feel like is he having that emotional trauma and you not knowing this was a learning experience, but being put through that traumatic turmoil with the baby dying in her hands, as an intern, while addison-new the entire time that the baby was going to die. It's just incredibly upsetting for both a z and a baby's parents. Okay, the fourth unethical snare that I really want to talk about is that unauthorized unauthorized. I'll talk to you by Izzy and Christina. This is hilarious when I first watch it. But honestly and unauthorised autopsy is the best way to be sued to go. And have your medical license revoked. And I say that because there are so many boundaries are crossed first off, the patient's family, specifically and explicitly said that they don't wants an autopsy to be performed. I feel like the whole like autonomy beneficent nonmaleficence Justice, the four pillars can be applied here but very Loosely since this is not the patient is the patient's family. But first, a ton of me, I think because patient is already dead. So Family has to apply autonomy. So they have their opinions, which must be followed as a provider. You're not able to force them or coerce them into anything. So doing the autopsy was unethical because they explicitly said, no, but beneficence actually in the end it kind of benefit to them because they found out there was some kind of genetic which altered them and it could be passed down to family members, but that was still an ethical. Because in terms of non maleficence, even though the patient was already dead, it is harming in that it ruins the reputation of medicine and public and it undermines the role of a free-will, it undermines the role of Physicians being on respected and Lou. Is the Public's trust and Justice. I don't think really is applicable to this. So even though Christina and Izzy found that there was some kind of complication with genetics and they were like, oh, we saved your life today but is still an excusable and they totally should have stood Okay. The next and last and ethical standard. I'm going to be talkin about today is the DNR for Izzy during her cancer. So basically, is he had a do not resuscitate order. I think as far as my memory goes, I think she had when she had cancer, she had a do-not-resuscitate, but then Alex karev her boyfriend and Doctor when she was in like respiratory distress or something or like Cardiac Arrest. He decides to keep doing chest compressions, and that's just the first thing as a physician. There's so many boundaries here. First of all, he should not have been in that room because he had a romantic relationship with her. And he obviously cares for her deeply. Then that would override his mental abilities to think as a physician. And to think as her provider first Foremost and he just completely like this regards. Her decision to do a DNR. Dnr's are put in place for a reason, especially since she was at stage 4 cancer. She was a terminally ill patients, you know, this is something that people don't usually take very lightly during chest compressions. There are many other injuries that can form that can harm the patient. So, for example, displace ribs, you can actually break their ribs or their sternum, which can directly injure the heart and the lungs, and that is definitely something that is taken into account when signing a DNR. So by disregarding the DNR, Alex also puts his own selfish needs ya, even though it's true. Only romantic at first glance, I feel like it's just very idealistic. And in real life, he would probably have lost his medical license. He knew exactly what he was doing yet. He just chose to break all the ethical boundaries. All right, sir, that's the end of my rent for today. I hope you enjoy listening to my very cringy long explanation of why Grey's Anatomy is still the best show. Despite all of its flaws and it's an ethical scenario and all of its inaccuracy is I still love it. If you enjoyed please remember to follow me on Instagram at the mediocre doctor and at medic morning. I do a lot of Q and A's so make sure that phone to keep an eye for that. Make sure to check out my website the mediocre doctor that's where that sides. If you want to purchase my notes or contact me or DM me. Remember all my DMs are always open. And Yeah, that's it for the day. See you next time. Bye bye.