Just how challenging is it to report on the war in Ukraine? In Episode 4 of Season 2 of the Eurovision News Podcast, host Giles Gibson meets two journalists who have been travelling in and out of Ukraine since Russia launched its full-scale invasion on 24th February 2022.

Alex Cadier and Eric Feijten describe how they stay safe, try to cover the story with empathy and how they have developed a personal connection with Ukraine.

We also hear about the crucial role of "fixers" and the increasingly heavy burden on local journalists, who have been living with the conflict, day in, day out, for four years now.