In this episode, Curtis and Tom sit down with Gini Dietrich, founder and CEO of Spin Sucks and creator of the PESO Model®, to talk about how communications leaders can adapt in today’s “zero-click” reality. From rethinking attribution to building visibility with AI in mind, Gini shares why the PESO framework is no longer just a model, it’s becoming an operating system for modern marketing. The conversation covers how consumer journeys are anything but linear, why measurement is murkier than ever, and what signals actually matter when proving traction.

You’ll also hear practical advice on how to test your brand visibility in AI tools today, why owned and earned media are more important than ever, and how to shift from funnels to flywheels when building trust.

N.B.:

• Learn more at SpinSucks.com

• Connect with Gini on LinkedIn

Takeaways:

• The PESO Model—paid, earned, shared, owned—must evolve into an operating system for comms teams.

• In a zero-click world, credibility in earned and owned media drives whether AI surfaces your brand.

• The customer journey is no longer linear—think “flywheel,” not funnel.

• Attribution is broken. Instead, track traction signals like branded search lift, community health, and unaided awareness.

• Your website is still critical. AI may cite it, and high-quality visitors often come directly from those references.

• Think like a publisher again: create content that answers real customer questions, not just what Google wants.

• Test your brand visibility by going incognito in AI tools. See what shows up, what doesn’t, and fix inconsistencies.

Find and Follow:

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• Learn more about Collideascope and Creative Mill at their respective websites.

• Connect with Curtis and Tom on LinkedIn.

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