In this special cross-posted episode, John joins the podcast Strays, Orphans, and Exiles from Two Rivers Church in Guelph. The conversation explores new and creative approaches to church in the 21st century, focusing on the use of online spaces, social media, and alternative models like home churches and virtual communities.

John shares his experience starting The Abbey, a virtual ministry born during the COVID-19 pandemic to support spiritual practices and ministry leaders through webinars and hybrid engagement. He discusses how virtual spaces can lower barriers to participation, create new forms of community, and connect with those hesitant to enter traditional church buildings.

The discussion also dives into the challenges and opportunities of hybrid and online ministry, the role of social media in building authentic relationships, and the future of diverse and flexible church models that meet people where they are. Throughout, John emphasizes the need for creativity, risk-taking, and openness to reimagining what "church" can be in today’s world.