Part 2 with Pastor Justin Wideman picks up right where Part 1 left off — which is to say, deeper than either of them planned to go.

Justin unpacks his four-level discipleship model using the most relatable illustration you'll hear all season: a kid with untied shoes. Level one, you don't even know your shoe is untied. Level four, you're tying it mid-sentence without breaking stride. The question Justin keeps pressing is why the church keeps putting level-two disciples in leadership positions — and then wonders why it's answering spiritual problems with worldly answers.

From there, the conversation wanders — productively — into the image of God as a battle line, whether chaos was baked into creation, and what it means to be a receptacle for spirit. Justin's answer to an impossible theological question is one of the most grounding things you'll hear on this podcast: "When there is chaos, I've got somebody I can turn to."

The speed round delivers on a dentist named Dr. Silver Tooth, Justin's carnivore diet, why he scored a one in mercy on his spiritual gifts analysis, and the revelation that he binged a documentary about a football team he doesn't even like.

It closes the way the best conversations do — with Justin reminding us that we are the moon, and He is the sun.