This week on Five Rules for the Good Life, I sit down with Sabrina Rudin, the force behind Spring Cafe in Aspen and New York. She is also the author of Healthy with a Side of Happy, which comes out on April 28th, and shares her Five Rules for Cooking Vegetarian Food. Not trends, not rules for the sake of rules, but food that makes you feel good and keeps you coming back for more. We talk about what it actually means to cook and eat well without overcomplicating it. Skip the fake meat. Cook with what’s in season. Look outside your usual rotation. Make it satisfying. And most importantly, let the food do the talking.

What I love about Sabrina is that she doesn’t hedge. She’s not trying to trick you into eating vegetables. She’s not disguising them or apologizing for them. She cooks them like they matter, because they do. There’s confidence in that. You feel it in the way she talks about a squash or a bowl of lentils the same way someone else might talk about a steak. It’s direct, it’s honest, and it works. You leave the conversation wanting to cook, not convert. You want to make something that tastes good, fills you up, and maybe shifts how you think about what a meal can be.

Thank you to Lesley Suter & Noah Galuten for having me on Food Parents last week. We swap recipes for our kids, talk about the last wins we had in the kitchen, and I share how I sneak Red Boat Fish Sauce into everything.

Introduction

Hello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz Today, I’m joined by Sabrina Rudin, who is the owner of Spring Cafe in Aspen and the author of Healthy with a Side of Happy, 100 Plant-Based Recipes to Feed Your Family. She shares her five rules for cooking vegetarian food and preaches the importance of foregoing faux meat when cooking dinner, that by experimenting with different cuisines and flavors, you will open your palate to a world of deliciousness and that just because it doesn’t have meat doesn’t mean it isn’t hearty. It is a great conversation for anyone who’s already foregone any carnivorous eating habits and for those who want to eat less meat and add a lot more vegetables to their cooking. So let’s get into the rules.

Opening Conversation

Sabrina, so nice to meet you. Thank you for making the time to sit down and chat with me. Excited to have you on the show. I’m so excited to be here. Thank you for having me. We are knee deep in the Winter Olympics, which I know is something close to your heart as a former snowboard instructor. Oh, gosh. What do you love the most about being out on the slopes? I love the peace and quiet of it. I love early morning tracks, either fresh powder or a groomed run, just getting out there and seeing all the snow and the trees and being in nature. I also love the adrenaline. There’s nothing like dropping into a run on your snowboard. Both of those two things combined just really does it for me. I love getting out on the slopes. I did as a kid and just got back into it recently. And what I found that hasn’t changed is that the food that I find at the lodges can be super heavy, not the energy I need. You can’t ski after it. You found the same thing. And instead of just complaining about it, you wound up opening up your own place, Spring Cafe Aspen. Why was it so important to you to offer a different culinary option for those hitting the slopes?

The Origin of Spring Cafe

Well, I was living out in Aspen after college teaching snowboarding. I spent a lot of time there growing up. I would wake up really early to get to line up to get our lesson assignments. And then I would finish a day of skiing. All I wanted was a cozy, comforting, big bowl of food that would leave me feeling really good. I wanted a vegetarian option. Mm hmm. It’s an activity driven lifestyle. I wanted something vibrant. I wanted bright colors, cabbage and broccoli and tofu and brown rice, juices and smoothies and all the foods that I know fuel you that don’t leave you feeling bloated and tired and heavy. And I couldn’t find it. So I did complain about it. for a long time. I also drew inspiration from a lot of places in LA. I wanted a place like Cafe Gratitude or Real Food Daily. I wanted an Earth Cafe, something with a counterculture vibe and a fun, vibrant juice bar that people could gather around after a day of skiing. Everyone told me I was crazy, but I have this terrible habit that when people tell me I’m crazy and something won’t succeed, I think I should test it out. So that’s what I did. A few years later, I opened Spring Cafe and that was almost 15 years ago.

The Cookbook Philosophy

It feels like all of your lifetime experiences of cooking healthy and vegetarian food has bubbled up into your first cookbook, Healthy with a Side of Happy, which is coming out April 28th on Union Square and Co. What did you want to say with these plant-based recipes in a vegetarian-focused cookbook? I wanted to say a few things. I wanted to say, one, nobody has to be vegetarian. I eat a little bit of meat. The healthiest way to eat, no matter what fad comes and goes, is plenty of fruits, vegetables, nuts, beans, seeds, grains, loaded with fiber, loaded with nutrients. So I wanted people to know that you don’t have to only eat this way, but you should know how to cook this way. And I wanted to make it simple, accessible. I just wanted it to be full of joy, hence the title, Healthy with a Side of Happy. I wanted to say to people, this is the foundation for a healthy, happy, joyful life. And you don’t have to go crazy. These are the foods that I grew up eating. This is how we prepared them in a way that always felt nourishing and joyful to me. If I can do it, you can do it because I am not a trained chef. I am a home chef learned to cook by watching my mom and then experimenting from other people’s cookbooks. Love it. There’s so much out there. Wellness has become this crazy industry. Health has become this crazy industry. Plant-based food has become an industry. But if you just could have one Bible in your home to help you live a healthier, happier, cleaner life, this is what I would give you. I love that confidence and I love that conviction and I love that curation of, I know there’s a lot out there. I’ve lived that life both outside of nature and opening a business, which is why I’m so excited for you to share your five rules for cooking vegetarian food.

Rule #1: Make Vegetables the Star

Your very first rule is one that I agree with wholeheartedly because when I want something that is plant-based, it’s not because I’m missing meat. It’s because I want the best of what I can get out of the ground. What’s your rule number one? Forget the faux meat and make vegetables the star of the show. People who want vegetarian food, you’re not trying to make it meat. You’re not trying to serve the meat. It shouldn’t taste like meat. It should taste like vegetables. When I’m cooking for people and I want to make them this beautiful vegetarian dish or meal or dinner or lunch, I don’t try to make a sausage stuffed anything. No, thank you. I choose a vegetable, a beautiful squash, and I stuff it with wild rice, with veggies. I love to make a lentil or a tempeh bolognese. There’s a recipe for that in my book. It’s fun to take a twist on a classic meaty dish and make it with vegetables. Forget the fake meat. Make vegetables the star of the show because when we talk about eating a plant-based diet, let’s eat plants and show everyone what you can do with them. There is really no better way to convince someone to consider plant-based dishes than just relying on the flavor and the realness of the dish itself. Trying to tell someone, oh, I’ve made the best version of this, or oh, you don’t need that in your dish is a surefire way to turn them off, which ties directly into your rule number two.

Rule #2: Don’t Try to Convert Everyone

My rule number two is don’t try to convert everyone. Just focus on the joy of sharing a meal. The point of everything that I do in my work with the cafe, with my social media, and really my book is food is joy. Nourishment is joy. Coming together to share a meal I think is one of the most special things we can do together as humans. Forget trying to convert or convince anyone that your way is better or that they should be eating this way. And let the food speak for itself. Cooking a meal for your kids, your significant other, your friends, your community, and just coming together around a table is really a great act of love and service. Let the food that you put down really be infused with joy, with love, and let sharing that experience be the proof in the pudding.

Rule #3: Experiment with Cuisines and Flavors

Being able to create those new experiences and opening someone’s eyes to the possibility of this type of cooking does come with exploring different cultures and cuisines and flavors. If all you’ve ever had is broccoli with Braggs again and again over brown rice, which we’ve all enjoyed... A lot of that. I’ve eaten a lot of that. It can get really stale. It can really turn someone off. Your third rule talks about opening your pantry and your ingredients to a much larger world. What’s your rule number three? My rule number three is experiment with different cuisines and flavors. My kids eat the most every meal when we do Greek night, Indian night, Thai night. Mm-hmm. Do I get it all perfectly? No. Do I really try to honor the culture that I’ve chosen to represent in the food? Yes. Do I put Bragg’s in Indian food sometimes? Yes. I’m not going to lie. It’s popular for a reason. There’s this myth. You have to make the adult the spicy version and the kid the flavorless bland version. I’ve actually found that to be incredibly untrue. My children eat garlic, turmeric, ginger, spices from the time they start solids. And to me, that’s what gets them excited about it. The beauty of experimenting with another cuisine is most people really do think American food or meat and potatoes or fish and veggies or, oh, we’re going over. She’s going to make vegetarian food. What could she possibly make? Pasta. And when I put down a meal that’s really rooted in another tradition with flavors that people aren’t used to, that’s where the excitement comes from. And I think you can show people a lot, showcase veggies in a way, stepping a little bit outside of your comfort zone. There’s a vegetarian Indian meal that I had from a Tiffin woman who cooked out of her house from the South Bay 15 years ago that I still say, if I could eat like that all the time, I’d never have another piece of meat. Exactly.

Rule #4: Shop Seasonally and Locally

Part of what made her food so incredible was the freshness, was driven by what was in season, which I know is something that’s said a million times, but it’s hard to ignore it when things taste so good. That approach to shopping and what you put in these dishes is a fundamental rule number four. My rule number four, I have to give credit, is inspired by the wonderful chef and food writer, Melissa Clark. Legend. I read her cook this now. Nearly 20 years ago when I was living in the city, I’m starting to cook on my own. She talks about going to the farmer’s market every day of the year in New York. Mm. trudging there in the dead of winter, in the snow, buying what’s in season and making a meal from it. And that really stuck with me ever since I have visited the Union Square Farmers Market in New York every week. Wednesdays and Saturdays are my days. I go rain, sleet, snow, anything. I really try to find what’s in season. I love talking to the farmers that are growing my food. I find things that you wouldn’t normally or ever find in the traditional aisles of a grocery store. Really encouraging people to shop. locally and seasonally from their local market does so much for our food ecosystem. You get kohlrabi, you get baby bok choy, you get yum choy some, and suddenly it’s not only just broccoli with Braggs. Zilling bok choy, which is a recipe I have in my book, a variety of squash that you have never tried before that’s so tender and sweet and delicious, melts in your mouth while roasted. I just like to encourage people to be excited by something different and something new. Some people get really excited about going shoe shopping. I get really excited about going veggie shopping.

Rule #5: Make It Hearty

Having that passion that started with you wanting to open Spring Cafe in Aspen all these years later has really come together to help you shape the types of recipes that you’re sharing in your book and that you want to put out in the world and ties directly into your rule number five. My rule number five is make it hearty. Stews and soups are such a great way to highlight how satiating plant-based food can be because when I first started talking about an idea for Spring Cafe in Aspen, my coworkers, my friends, everyone was like, oh, No one wants to eat salad in Aspen. Everyone wants an elk chili or a burger. And I said, well, first of all, who said anything about just salad? I don’t want a salad right now. I want a coconut curry with veggies and chickpeas. I want enchiladas. I want a lasagna. I want a sweet potato white bean burger. I want a huge breakfast burrito. I just want to feel really good after I eat it. When I first opened spring in New York, what always... filled my cup the most was when we would get tables of a few guys who were on their lunch break from work and they would order the sweet potato white bean burger or the chickpea tuna pita in the early days when we opened it I would walk around and introduce myself to everyone and thank everyone for coming in and I always loved seeing a big group of guys lick their plates clean and I would start talking them and say, do you feel satisfied or is this your first time? And they’d say, we are obsessed with it. We love it. We come every day from work. We feel so good. Our partners are so excited. We’re eating healthy. We can go to the gym and we feel really great at the end of the day after work. It might be a more typical choice to choose Chipotle or another option, all of which are great options. But if you can really show people just how satisfying, satiating it can be, that’s really how you show people that you are what you eat. healthy with a side of happy. That’s the correlation between eating good and feeling good for me.

Closing

If people want to come to the cafe, if they want to see book events you’re doing, follow along with what you’re cooking and if the content you make, where can they go? They can find me and follow along on my Instagram at Spring by Sabrina. They can come visit one of the cafes in Aspen or New York City. The best way is my website, sabrinarudin.com or my Instagram, Spring by Sabrina. Congratulations. Excited for your first book to come out into the world. Thank you. It’s such a great podcast. Thank you for having me. Oh, thank you so much. Thank you for stopping by. Love to be here.

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