In the second of a two-part conversation, Karl Vaters joins the Jasons to talk about his latest book Desizing the Church: How Church Growth Became a Science, Then an Obsession, and What’s Next.

The church growth movement has had a monumental influence on the way that pastors and church leaders understand the church, pastoral success, congregational viability, and even the perceived work of the Holy Spirit. Some of it was positive. Much of it was not. In Desizing the Church, Karl Vaters walks through the history and impact of the church growth movement and what it means for small church pastors.

This episode should help you better understand how the church growth movement impacts your ministry and your church and discover healthier ways to pursue congregational revitalization that aren’t so dependent upon numbers and statistics.

Jason Buckwalter and I, Jason Hill, both highly recommend Desizing the Church for pastors of any size, but particularly for our audience of largely small church pastors and readers! Give it a read! You can pick it up from Amazon or your favorite book seller.

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