In this episode of Safe to Hope, Dr. Lisa Oakley, a professor in the Department of Psychology at the University of Chester explains her 20-year journey in defining and addressing spiritual abuse, highlighting its emotional and psychological impacts. She emphasizes the importance of creating healthy church cultures and responding well to disclosures. Dr. Oakley will discuss the subtlety of spiritual abuse, the need for proper policies and processes, and the damaging effects of dismissal and discrediting survivors' experiences. Dr. Oakley is one of the foremost experts in spiritual abuse, her book Escaping the Maze of Spiritual Abuse is a foundational resource on this topic.

Season 7 Is It Spiritual Abuse?

Safe To Hope is one of the resources offered through the ministry of Help[H]er, a 501C3 that provides advocacy for women in crisis in the church, and training and resources for those ministering in one-another care. Your donations make it possible for Help[H]er to serve as they navigate crises. All donations are tax-deductible.

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We value and respect conversations with all our guests. Opinions, viewpoints, and convictions may differ so we encourage our listeners to practice discernment. As well, guests do not necessarily represent the views and opinions of HelpHer. It is our hope that this podcast is a platform for hearing and learning rather than causing division or strife.

Please note, abuse situations have common patterns of behavior, responses, and environments. Any familiarity construed by the listener is of their own opinion and interpretation. Our podcast does not accuse individuals or organizations.

The podcast is for informational purposes and is not a substitute for professional care, diagnosis, or treatment.

In this episode of Safe to Hope, guest host Lynna Sutherland from Advocacy from the Presbyterian Pew sits down with Ann Maree to discuss how spiritual abuse can unfold inside church structures—and why a woman’s “perspective” is often dismissed when authority is treated as ultimate.

Ann Maree shares her journey from long-term service and trust in her church to becoming the one who was silenced, discredited, and pushed out. She describes advocacy work that led to accusations, misuse of church process, and “shepherding” meetings that felt like interrogation rather than care. Together, they examine what spiritual abuse is (and isn’t), how institutions can prioritize image over people in crisis, and how trauma can have a long “shelf life” even after leaving.

Listener care: This episode includes discussion of spiritual abuse and may include references to other forms of abuse. Please listen at your own pace and take breaks as needed. Resources are available in the show notes.

Safe To Hope is one of the resources offered through the ministry of Help[H]er, a 501C3 that provides advocacy for women in crisis in the church, and training and resources for those ministering in one-another care. Your donations make it possible for Help[H]er to serve as they navigate crises. All donations are tax-deductible.

Help[H]er website
Give
Shop

We value and respect conversations with all our guests. Opinions, viewpoints, and convictions may differ so we encourage our listeners to practice discernment. As well, guests do not necessarily represent the views and opinions of HelpHer. It is our hope that this podcast is a platform for hearing and learning rather than causing division or strife.

Please note, abuse situations have common patterns of behavior, responses, and environments. Any familiarity construed by the listener is of their own opinion and interpretation. Our podcast does not accuse individuals or organizations.

The podcast is for informational purposes and is not a substitute for professional care, diagnosis, or treatment.

In this first episode of Safe to Hope, Season 7 Wade Mullen joins Ann Maree and Julia to unpack how spiritual abuse operates within churches and Christian organizations. Drawing from his research and lived experience, Wade exposes the image-protecting tactics—silencing, justification, denial, and confusion—that often harm victims and protect systems. This conversation offers language, clarity, and hope for those seeking truth, safety, and a more faithful response to abuse.

Safe To Hope is one of the resources offered through the ministry of Help[H]er, a 501C3 that provides advocacy for women in crisis in the church, and training and resources for those ministering in one-another care. Your donations make it possible for Help[H]er to serve as they navigate crises. All donations are tax-deductible.

Help[H]er website
Give
Shop

We value and respect conversations with all our guests. Opinions, viewpoints, and convictions may differ so we encourage our listeners to practice discernment. As well, guests do not necessarily represent the views and opinions of HelpHer. It is our hope that this podcast is a platform for hearing and learning rather than causing division or strife.

Please note, abuse situations have common patterns of behavior, responses, and environments. Any familiarity construed by the listener is of their own opinion and interpretation. Our podcast does not accuse individuals or organizations.

The podcast is for informational purposes and is not a substitute for professional care, diagnosis, or treatment.

This bonus and final episode of the Safe to Hope podcast brings together Dr. Dan Allender and our storyteller, Carya, in a conversation that is both tender and profound.

Dr. Allender—known for his pioneering work in trauma and abuse recovery—invites Carya to reflect on her healing journey through the lens of God’s image, goodness, and gentleness. Together, they explore the paradox of holding both unbearable evil and astonishing grace within one life.

SHOW NOTES: 

Dr Allender resources

• The Wounded Heart
• The Healing Path
• To Be Told
• God Loves Sex
• Intimate Allies
• The Cry of the Soul, 
• Bold Love
• Bold Purpose
• Redeeming Heartache
• The Deep-Rooted Marriage

Safe To Hope is one of the resources offered through the ministry of Help[H]er, a 501C3 that provides advocacy for women in crisis in the church, and training and resources for those ministering in one-another care. Your donations make it possible for Help[H]er to serve as they navigate crises. All donations are tax-deductible.

Help[H]er website
Give
Shop

We value and respect conversations with all our guests. Opinions, viewpoints, and convictions may differ so we encourage our listeners to practice discernment. As well, guests do not necessarily represent the views and opinions of HelpHer. It is our hope that this podcast is a platform for hearing and learning rather than causing division or strife.

Please note, abuse situations have common patterns of behavior, responses, and environments. Any familiarity construed by the listener is of their own opinion and interpretation. Our podcast does not accuse individuals or organizations.

The podcast is for informational purposes and is not a substitute for professional care, diagnosis, or treatment.

In her final story episode, Carya reflects on what it means for God to be with her—not only through rescue, but in the long, quiet ache that follows. Through Scripture, images, and honest wrestling, she shares how comfort can coexist with agony, and how the Word that once felt distant has become both balm and challenge. Explore what healing looks like when it isn’t finished yet—when faith must hold steady between lament and hope.

• Episode 4 
• Episode 6 
• Restoring the Shattered Self and Treating Trauma and Christian Counseling  by Dr. Heather Gingrich
• Graduate Certificate in Trauma Therapy
• The Other Half of Church, Escaping Enemy Mode and The Red Dragon Cast Down  by Jim Wilder
• Self-Regulation for Daily Triggers
• Justice From the Victim’s Perspective by Judith Herman
• Honoring the Truth: A Response to the Backlash by Ellen Bass and Laura Davis
• Serving SRA Survivors: Satanic Ritual Abuse Recovery by Kay Elise Tolman
• On the Threshold of Hope by Diane Langberg

Scripture quotations are from the ESV®Bible (The Holy Bible, English Standard Version®), copyright© 2001 by Crossway Bibles, a publishing ministry of Good News Publishers. Used by permission. All

Safe To Hope is one of the resources offered through the ministry of Help[H]er, a 501C3 that provides advocacy for women in crisis in the church, and training and resources for those ministering in one-another care. Your donations make it possible for Help[H]er to serve as they navigate crises. All donations are tax-deductible.

Help[H]er website
Give
Shop

We value and respect conversations with all our guests. Opinions, viewpoints, and convictions may differ so we encourage our listeners to practice discernment. As well, guests do not necessarily represent the views and opinions of HelpHer. It is our hope that this podcast is a platform for hearing and learning rather than causing division or strife.

Please note, abuse situations have common patterns of behavior, responses, and environments. Any familiarity construed by the listener is of their own opinion and interpretation. Our podcast does not accuse individuals or organizations.

The podcast is for informational purposes and is not a substitute for professional care, diagnosis, or treatment.

Dr. Dan Allender joins Ann Maree to discuss trauma, faith, and the work of story. Together they wrestle with how believers can live in the tension between death and resurrection—where hope and heartache coexist.

SHOW NOTES:

• Episode 4 Self-Care
• Episode 6 Dr Heather Evans

Dr Allender’s Resources:

• The Wounded Heart: Hope for Adult Victims of Childhood Sexual Abuse
• The Healing Path: How the Hurts in Your Past Can Lead You to a More Abundant Life
• To Be Told: Know Your Story, Shape Your Future
• The Cry of the Soul (with Tremper Longman III)
• God Loves Sex (with Dr. Tremper Longman III)
• Bold Love (with Tremper Longman III)

• The Other Half of Church by Jim Wilder
• Self-Regulation for Daily Triggers
• Justice From the Victim’s Perspective by Judith Herman
• Honoring the Truth: A Response to the Backlash by Ellen Bass and Laura Davis
• Serving SRA Survivors: Satanic Ritual Abuse Recovery by Kay Elise Tolman
• On the Threshold of Hope by Diane Langberg

Safe To Hope is one of the resources offered through the ministry of Help[H]er, a 501C3 that provides advocacy for women in crisis in the church, and training and resources for those ministering in one-another care. Your donations make it possible for Help[H]er to serve as they navigate crises. All donations are tax-deductible.

Help[H]er website
Give
Shop

We value and respect conversations with all our guests. Opinions, viewpoints, and convictions may differ so we encourage our listeners to practice discernment. As well, guests do not necessarily represent the views and opinions of HelpHer. It is our hope that this podcast is a platform for hearing and learning rather than causing division or strife.

Please note, abuse situations have common patterns of behavior, responses, and environments. Any familiarity construed by the listener is of their own opinion and interpretation. Our podcast does not accuse individuals or organizations.

The podcast is for informational purposes and is not a substitute for professional care, diagnosis, or treatment.

Carya’s rescue didn’t begin with a manual—it began with love, prayer, and a community willing to bear witness. In this conversation, “Lynn,” the trusted friend who helped orchestrate Carya’s exit from harm, shares how faith, patience, wise counsel, and practical safeguards came together to make safety possible. This is not a how-to guide; it’s a testimony of God’s steady care through ordinary people who chose to stay.

SHOW NOTES:

• Episode 4 Self-Care
• Episode 6 Dr Heather Evans
• Restoring the Shattered Self by Dr. Heather Gingrich
• Treating Trauma and Christian Counseling by Dr. Heather Gingrich
• Graduate Certificate in Trauma Therapy
• The Other Half of Church by Jim Wilder
• Self-Regulation for Daily Triggers
• Justice From the Victim’s Perspective by Judith Herman
• Honoring the Truth: A Response to the Backlash by Ellen Bass and Laura Davis
• Escaping Enemy Mode and The Red Dragon Cast Down by Dr Jim Wilder
• Serving SRA Survivors: Satanic Ritual Abuse Recovery by Kay Elise Tolman
• On the Threshold of Hope by Diane Langberg

Safe To Hope is one of the resources offered through the ministry of Help[H]er, a 501C3 that provides advocacy for women in crisis in the church, and training and resources for those ministering in one-another care. Your donations make it possible for Help[H]er to serve as they navigate crises. All donations are tax-deductible.

Help[H]er website
Give
Shop

We value and respect conversations with all our guests. Opinions, viewpoints, and convictions may differ so we encourage our listeners to practice discernment. As well, guests do not necessarily represent the views and opinions of HelpHer. It is our hope that this podcast is a platform for hearing and learning rather than causing division or strife.

Please note, abuse situations have common patterns of behavior, responses, and environments. Any familiarity construed by the listener is of their own opinion and interpretation. Our podcast does not accuse individuals or organizations.

The podcast is for informational purposes and is not a substitute for professional care, diagnosis, or treatment.

In this pivotal chapter of her story, Carya shares how her long nightmare began to shift—when the years of abuse finally gave way to rescue. Yet safety was not something she could walk into alone. This episode highlights the crucial role of people-helpers—those who step in, stand beside, and walk with survivors through the fear, uncertainty, and fragile beginnings of healing.

Show Notes:

• Episode 4 Self-Care
• Episode 6 Dr Heather Evans
• Restoring the Shattered Self by Dr. Heather Gingrich
• Treating Trauma and Christian Counseling by Dr. Heather Gingrich
• Graduate Certificate in Trauma Therapy
• The Other Half of Church by Jim Wilder
  
  
• Self-Regulation for Daily Triggers
• Justice From the Victim’s Perspective by Judith Herman
• Honoring the Truth: A Response to the Backlash by Ellen Bass and Laura Davis
• Escaping Enemy Mode and The Red Dragon Cast Down by Dr Jim Wilder
• Serving SRA Survivors: Satanic Ritual Abuse Recovery by Kay Elise Tolman
• On the Threshold of Hope by Diane Langberg

Safe To Hope is one of the resources offered through the ministry of Help[H]er, a 501C3 that provides advocacy for women in crisis in the church, and training and resources for those ministering in one-another care. Your donations make it possible for Help[H]er to serve as they navigate crises. All donations are tax-deductible.

Help[H]er website
Give
Shop

We value and respect conversations with all our guests. Opinions, viewpoints, and convictions may differ so we encourage our listeners to practice discernment. As well, guests do not necessarily represent the views and opinions of HelpHer. It is our hope that this podcast is a platform for hearing and learning rather than causing division or strife.

Please note, abuse situations have common patterns of behavior, responses, and environments. Any familiarity construed by the listener is of their own opinion and interpretation. Our podcast does not accuse individuals or organizations.

The podcast is for informational purposes and is not a substitute for professional care, diagnosis, or treatment.

This week on Safe to Hope, Dr. Heather Davediuk Gingrich joins us for a conversation that blends deep clinical insight with years of walking alongside survivors of extreme abuse. From dissociative identity disorder (DID) to ritual abuse, she helps us understand how evil distorts, how the church can cause further harm—even unintentionally—and how to become truly safe people for those who are healing. This is a sobering yet hope-filled episode, equipping us to listen well, care wisely, and respond with both truth and compassion.

SHOW NOTES: 

• Shattered No More by Dr. Heather Gingrich
• Restoring the Shattered Self by Dr. Heather Gingrich
• Treating Trauma and Christian Counseling by Dr. Heather Gingrich
• Graduate Certificate in Trauma Therapy with Dr. Heather Gingrich
• The Other Half of Church by Jim Wilder
  
  
• Self-Regulation for Daily Triggers
• Justice From the Victim’s Perspective by Judith Herman
• Honoring the Truth: A Response to the Backlash by Ellen Bass and Laura Davis
• Escaping Enemy Mode by Dr Jim Wilder
• Serving SRA Survivors: Satanic Ritual Abuse Recovery by Kay Elise Tolman
• On the Threshold of Hope by Diane Langberg

Safe To Hope is one of the resources offered through the ministry of Help[H]er, a 501C3 that provides advocacy for women in crisis in the church, and training and resources for those ministering in one-another care. Your donations make it possible for Help[H]er to serve as they navigate crises. All donations are tax-deductible.

Help[H]er website
Give
Shop

We value and respect conversations with all our guests. Opinions, viewpoints, and convictions may differ so we encourage our listeners to practice discernment. As well, guests do not necessarily represent the views and opinions of HelpHer. It is our hope that this podcast is a platform for hearing and learning rather than causing division or strife.

Please note, abuse situations have common patterns of behavior, responses, and environments. Any familiarity construed by the listener is of their own opinion and interpretation. Our podcast does not accuse individuals or organizations.

The podcast is for informational purposes and is not a substitute for professional care, diagnosis, or treatment.

Through language rarely spoken in Christian spaces, Carya explains the difference between grooming and training, and how dissociation became the means of survival when life became unbearable. Carya invites listeners to see not only the trauma, but the mercy that allowed her to endure it. Her words call us, the Church to deeper understanding, and to become a place where stories like hers can be known and safely held.

Show Notes:

• Episode 4 Self-Care
• Episode 6 Dr. Heather Evans
• Shattered No More by Dr. Heather Gingrich
• CTHN, Tools and Handouts
• Self-Regulation for Daily Triggers
• The Essential Skill to Regulate Your Nervous System
• Therapy in a Nutshell
• Justice From the Victim’s Perspective by Judith Herman
• Honoring the Truth: A Response to the Backlash by Ellen Bass and Laura Davis
• Escaping Enemy Mode by Dr Jim Wilder
• Serving SRA Survivors: Satanic Ritual Abuse Recovery by Kay Elise Tolman
• Lalich Center on Cults and Coercion
• RAINN.org - Informational Support for sexual abuse survivors
• On the Threshold of Hope by Diane Langberg
• Escaping High-Control Religious Groups

Safe To Hope is one of the resources offered through the ministry of Help[H]er, a 501C3 that provides advocacy for women in crisis in the church, and training and resources for those ministering in one-another care. Your donations make it possible for Help[H]er to serve as they navigate crises. All donations are tax-deductible.

Help[H]er website
Give
Shop

We value and respect conversations with all our guests. Opinions, viewpoints, and convictions may differ so we encourage our listeners to practice discernment. As well, guests do not necessarily represent the views and opinions of HelpHer. It is our hope that this podcast is a platform for hearing and learning rather than causing division or strife.

Please note, abuse situations have common patterns of behavior, responses, and environments. Any familiarity construed by the listener is of their own opinion and interpretation. Our podcast does not accuse individuals or organizations.

The podcast is for informational purposes and is not a substitute for professional care, diagnosis, or treatment.