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Salt & Fern Bakehaus
Today I'm talking with Cally at Salt & Fern Bakehaus. You can also follow on Facebook.
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00:00
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00:26
A Tiny Homestead podcast is sponsored by Sealspoon Farm. You're listening to A Tiny Homestead, the podcast comprised entirely of conversations with homesteaders, cottage food producers, and crafters. I'm your host, Mary Lewis. Today I'm talking with Cally at Salt and Fern Bakehouse in North Mankato, Minnesota. Good morning, Cally. How are you? Good morning. I am really happy to be here.
00:50
I'm glad to have you and I'm really glad that I didn't screw up the introduction because I have been stumbling over my words the last few episodes and I'm like, get it together, Mary. You know how to do this. That's moving for a cup of coffee. Yeah, I'm telling you. It's crazy. um Normally, I would say, how's the weather? But since you're about half an hour for me, I'm guessing the sun has just broken through the rain clouds from this morning.
01:15
It's still pretty cloudy here, unfortunately, but I'm sure the sun will be on its way. know we've got some 50 and 60 degree days coming up. I cannot wait. I am so excited. I am so ready for this winter to be over. Me too. Get me in the garden. Yep. Right there with you. My husband is itching. I said to him, I said, are you going to get seeds planted in the seed trays on the kitchen table this weekend? And he said, there will be no seedlings in the house this year. What?
01:44
And I said, okay, he said, I am starting everything in the greenhouse. Oh my gosh. Do have an exterior greenhouse or like those rollable ones? We have like a, I think it's 25. I don't, I don't know the exact dimensions. It is probably 15 by 30 feet. It is a, it's not one of the hoop houses. It's a hard sided greenhouse. What a dream.
02:12
Yes, I applied for a grant a couple of years ago and got the grant and the grant was to go for a greenhouse. So we are very... that through U of M Extension? It was through the market and entry fund. Okay. I'll have to take a peek at that someday. Yeah, I can send you the link to the website if you would like it. Please. That sounds fantastic. Yep. it's been up. The greenhouse has been up for two seasons now, but...
02:39
He's been leery about starting seeds in there because we had to figure out a way to use the sunlight without using the solar generator panels. And so we put water in IBC totes and we painted the IBC totes black. so starting about now when the sun is out and it's pouring into the greenhouse, it heats up the water and then the water disperses the heat at night. That's brilliant.
03:09
So this is the first year we're brave and we're going to try starting the seeds, you know, in the greenhouse. That's so exciting. What a new journey. We're very lit up about this around here and I'm just keeping everything I have crossed that it works because we sell at the farmer's market in the summer and if those babies die, we have to start again. So keep everything you have crossed for me that this works.
03:36
Absolutely, I will. Are you selling at Mankato or like up in Liss- because you're in Lissour, right? Yeah. Yeah, we sell at the Lissour Farmers Market. I'll have to come give that a peek sometime. Is that usually Saturdays? Yeah, Saturday morning from 8 until noon.
03:52
That sounds so fun. Yep. And it's a very busy, very robust, very friendly group of people who've been there. Oh, yeah. I'm definitely going to have to come give that a peek. Yeah. It's really fun. it's, I don't want to say it's really diverse, but there are definitely some different things. People sell crafts there too. Ooh. Like everything from lotions to artwork? um
04:20
I don't know about artwork, but there's a guy that takes traidel sewing machines and makes them into tractors, makes them look like tractors. There's a guy who does jewelry, like pendants and stuff. And there's a lady who is in her eighties who sells eggs every summer. And there's like three or four people selling baked goods. And that wasn't the case a couple summers ago, but this past summer.
04:49
there were like four or five people selling baked goods there. I wonder if that's just a sign of the economic times that people are starting to get out there and utilize their skills in a financially helpful way or if that's just like they just decided to pick it up at that time. I have no idea but my husband ends up bringing home treats because everybody's sharing and there's a lady who makes lemon cookies that are to die for. oh
05:17
That sounds really delicious. when he comes home with lemon cookies, he is he is like all stars in my book. I bet they don't last too long on the counter, huh? No. And he usually brings back like they're small. They're maybe the size of a half dollar or so. Perfect. So if you bite that, if he brings home six, they're mine and they're gone in about 10 minutes. What a blessing. I love it. I love lemon. All right. So tell me a little bit about yourself and what you do.
05:46
Well, I obviously, you know that I have my little bakery, my salt and fern bakehouse um started out doing sourdough a couple years back. I think I believe I started during the pandemic um and then started selling about a year and a half ago now. um It was just something a little therapeutic and I like keeping things alive. this sourdough starter was uh the next logical step, I guess. um
06:16
And then people liked it and I was like, well, maybe I can be a neighborhood baker, even if I'm not gonna have an actual shop open. I can at least provide Mankato with a few extra loaves. uh And uh I like knowing where a lot of my food comes from. Local food is really important to me. My degree back in the day was with food systems, consumers and markets. So I am under the impression that honestly, buying local.
06:45
does more for the environment than even specifically buying organic can help because of the gas mileage that it takes. um It seems like buying local saves a lot of energy costs as well as em you tend to hold people responsible more when you actually know where you're getting your product from. for sure. And every dollar you spend locally stays local for the most part.
07:15
Exactly, exactly. So back in the local economy and ah that can only help my neighbors further. Yep, absolutely. uh We actually don't have any eggs in our farm stand this morning because somebody bought the last six dozen last night. Whoa. And I feel bad that there's no eggs in the farm stand today. How many chickens you guys have? 18. Nice, a good number, a solid chicken math number. Yes, it's not crazy. It's not too few. It's not too many. That's so smart.
07:45
But yes, I am. I swear I say get to know your local farmer and producer on every episode of this that I do because I am such a proponent for it because it is crazy to me that we can buy eggs from California at our local grocery stores. Yeah, which is wild because Minnesota used to have some of the most chicken farmers to my understanding in the nation. I don't know if that's true to this day, but it used to be.
08:15
Yeah, I don't know. And again, I'm going to repeat myself as I do. It is coming up on bird flu season, season for this. And I want, I want my neighbors to be able to have eggs. So if eggs go up in price again at the stores because of egg, because of bird flu, I want my neighbors to know that they have another source where they can pay $5 a dozen, not 10 or $12 a dozen. So right. True.
08:43
I'm lucky enough to have both my sister-in-law and my mom-in-law both raise chickens and then I have another friend in Mapleton who also raises chickens so they're usually pretty willing to trade bread for eggs when I'm in need which is, you know, even cheaper than a cash payment in my life. Oh, absolutely. Speaking of sourdough, I just got my new sourdough starter started on Tuesday. Do you have a name for them yet? I don't name them. Fair enough.
09:12
I figure that they're probably gonna die so I don't name them. Once I get one that actually lives for longer than a month and a half, I'll start naming it. Did you start it yourself or is this do you receive them from other people and then keep them alive? I received the first one last year from a friend and I was moving the jar over to my island to feed it and I dropped the jar and it shattered. No, RIP. Yeah, so that one went away real quick.
09:41
And then I decided to start my own and they were doing, did two and they were doing really well. And then they got the dreaded pink mold. No, no. And you can't come back from that. Nope. Those went in the trash too. And I was very disappointed because they were at that point where you put the spoon in and you dragged the spoon through it and it crackles because of all the bubbles. That's so satisfying. I was so mad. So I started this one last Tuesday and yesterday I pulled half of it out and added the
10:09
the flour in the water and stirred it up and I looked at it this morning and it's got bubbles all around the glass. I was like, okay, so another three, four, five days and maybe I can make a loaf. Maybe. I will be crossing my fingers and toes for you. That is the most exciting part. It is. And I've made two loaves so far. And I know this episode is not supposed to be about me, but I've made two loaves. The first one.
10:38
came out okay. was slightly undercooked and it was almost like a bagel texture. And it was yummy. I didn't even care that it wasn't not all the way cooked because I love bagels. Like the flavor, you can't beat the flavor of sourdough. It just doesn't compare to anything that you can find on grocery store shelves that's made to last. I know sourdough will disappear usually before it can mold luckily, otherwise it molds within a week.
11:07
And then my grocery store loaves will sit there for two months and still look like they did before we even, look like they did when we got them in the first place. Which is really scary. The second loaf I did, it was less undercooked, less baggily. Nice. like I was making progress and then I got the pink mold and had to stop. So did you know you can freeze some of your starter as well? I'm going to do that this time. Good choice.
11:36
Good choice, because then you can always bring it back. way if anything happens to the one that's going, I will have a backup because I really like the fact that I'm trying to do this because I don't like store-bought sourdough because it's so sourdough. Sure. Well, do you know why that is? No. Okay, so grocery stores, don't have enough time to do the three-day process that it usually takes to make a true loaf of sourdough. So they often are a yeasted dough.
12:06
that adds like essence of sourdough into it to make it sour, but it doesn't have the fermentation process that a true sourdough has. Oh, yeah, it's not my favorite thing. Yeah, so I learned that in the process of screwing up the first attempt, that it doesn't have to be super sour to still have the benefits of sourdough. Yeah, it's still, the yeast is still eating all of the sugars out of it.
12:33
not out of it, out of it, but like making it way more digestible. Yes. And I don't love the sour sour dough. So when I learned that I could make bread that I actually like to taste of that I would get the benefits from, I was very excited. Life changing, truly. Your sandwiches will never be the same. No. And there's something about the chew of a sour dough bread that I love. It's dense. It can actually hold up to like a BLT, a juicy garden tomato won't just fall right through it.
13:04
So I have all kinds of great things to say about sourdough. I love sourdough now that I know about it. And now I know it doesn't have to taste like vinegar. Helpful. So made me very happy to discover this. And if my friend hadn't given me the starter a year ago or whatever it was, I wouldn't be doing it now. Well, I'm glad you're here with us. Yeah, I've been assimilated. It's always wonderful when your friends invite you into their adventure. Truly.
13:31
That's how we get to be curious and grow together and then maybe have a little guidance where we need it when we're just starting out. So tell me about your cottage kitchen because I was looking at your Facebook page and it looks like you have some pretty hefty equipment. So how are you doing this? um Well, I just got a new simply bread oven earlier this year and it just got hooked up as of basically yesterday.
13:58
um So that's my heftiest piece of equipment because I've otherwise just been baking two loaves at a time in my Dutch ovens and that was you know, if you're baking from 5 a.m. Until 10 11 p.m. Before a market it's a little more exhausting So my capacity to be able to do 12 loaves at once now is going to be absolutely life-changing
14:21
Oh, yes. Oh, I screamed. was just completely overjoyed and then had my husband and four of his buddies come help carry it inside because that was not a one-man job. uh And then I also have uh a new mixer that allows me to do 10 loaves uh at a time that was a lot more helpful than trying to mix all of my dough by hand. I might even upgrade this year to have a second one so my timing can be more. uh I can do more loaves in the same amount of time again.
14:52
Do you have all of this in a small house or how is this working? Yeah, it's just uh a typical Midwestern Rambler kitchen. um I have a pretty big dining room table that most of the stuff gets set upon. My sister is a carpenter and she built it for me. And yeah, I think it's like an eight foot table and it's real sturdy so it can handle all the shakes that come from the mixer. uh But yeah, most of it.
15:21
Probably most of my work takes place within a like a 10 foot square of my house. Wow. And honestly, I say wow and I shouldn't because I used to make like major meals in a galley style kitchen at our old house. So I know. get it. I know what can be done. It's just it's just that I always think that things are much, much bigger than they are. It's why I've been like, oh, people are like, oh, when are you going to open a physical location? I'm like, I'm not.
15:49
I can get everything done here in this small space without paying for a lease. Yeah, that's a smart way to do it and it keeps your profits coming to you not going into rent. That's the hope. Because most of the businesses that I've seen that did take that step in my childhood, they never made it to the seven-year mark. Have you heard that thing of like, if you make it to seven years, you can be established there for 20, 30, 40. But if you don't make it to the seven-year mark, then you were kind of always doomed.
16:19
Yeah, I have. And it's either three years or seven years for any business. Sure. Sure, sure, Yeah. So I'm nervous to like start that and start that timer. I'm like, I'll just keep baking out of my kitchen until capacity is such that I cannot handle what people are asking for anymore. Yes. And that leads me to my next question. uh You started this a year two ago. So how is business? it?
16:46
Is it robust? Is it growing? Is it stagnant? How is it going? I would say in general, it's growing. I've been kind of on a two-ish month hiatus with the newborn. ah All of my brain cells have kind of gone into that small child at the moment, but I'm starting up again this weekend ah with the first experimental loaves out of the new oven. And uh in general, I would say I probably have been selling, you know, when I was still going whole hog at this, I was probably selling
17:16
10 to 15 loaves a week on my Monday pickup days. But then every time I would do an actual market, like at the Mankato Makerspace, I would sell out within three hours, no matter how much product I made. um So I feel like if I can start doing farmers markets this year, that would really be an excellent opportunity on my end. And then I would probably continue doing the weekly pickups, although I'm
17:41
trying to decide if more people would be willing to do pickups if I made pick up day Saturday instead of Monday. But I just figured like, oh, you want to start your work week with fresh bread instead of start your weekend with it. But there's a lot of experimentation and growth yet to still happen. I feel very young in my process of this all, which is kind of crazy that people have been appreciating what I've been doing to the extent they have because I feel so
18:10
Not unprepared, just it's unexpected to be appreciated in the way it's been. Yes, yes. I know exactly what you're talking about because we all suffer from imposter syndrome. When we start something new, it's like, OK, I'm going to try this. Yeah. Then it goes well. The first whatever span of time. And the further you get into it, you're like, I got a handle on this.
18:39
and then you take that next step. And then you go through it again. Do I know what I'm doing? Who am I to try this? Right. Who am I to explain it to other people? And I still feel like there's miles and miles of knowledge still yet to be gained before I could call myself any kind of a true expert or baker in general. I still feel like such a novice. And then my friends are like, no, you're awesome. You can teach me these things. like, I don't feel like that's a huge responsibility.
19:08
I'm still making so many mistakes. What do you mean? Yeah, but every journey starts with the first step. True. And I'm willing to make a million of those because I'm a curious, nonsensical human. Yes, I'm like that too. I started this podcast over two and a half years ago now. That's awesome. I had no idea how to do it, where to start. And I just Googled everything and made notes and drove myself crazy.
19:37
for three months before I ever record an episode. That's awesome. And I mean, you know, the school of YouTube definitely helps for a lot of things like that as well, I imagine. I didn't even really look at YouTube. Really? Helpful. Nice though. Good. Nope. I just went out and looked at what other people did on their podcasts. And then I typed in, how do I start a podcast in Google? Word. And all kinds of help. So.
20:06
If for the listener, if you want to start something that you're interested in, try it. Yeah, just do it. Just take the first step. It does not have to be perfect. No. And if you find out you hate it, you don't have to keep doing it. True sunk cost fallacy. It's it's real and you don't have to do it. Yeah. And no one's going to punch you in the face for trying something new. No. And then you'll know more about yourself when you come out of it. Uh huh. Yep.
20:35
Absolutely. I am again a proponent of people following their dreams. Don't drown in them. If they're not going well, don't keep doing it. Right. But try it. You never know what's going to happen. Give it a shot, man. Yeah, absolutely. And I'm old. I'm 56 years old and I started a podcast when I was 53 or 54. If I can do this, anybody can do something.
21:01
I feel like is not even that old these days. I feel like you have so much more of sense of yourself at 54 that you probably have more freedom. I think that's what actually saved me. Is that I was like, nobody cares. Nobody cares what I do. I am not out to impress anybody anymore. I'm just gonna try it. And that's what frees you. Like then you can just do exactly what you want because it's like, well, who cares? Who's gonna tell me no? No one. No one is gonna...
21:31
like yell at me for trying new things these days. Yes, and if you're 16 years old, the same thing holds true. You don't have to be constrained by other people's opinions. You have to be true to yourself. I feel like that's a much harder lesson to learn at 16 than in my 30s. Oh, I would never have done anything like this at 16, ever.
21:57
Do think it's because of the communities we've built up that we know have our backs or is it just our sense of self? I think that when we are in our teens, we're trying to rebel and conform at the same time. um And when you're trying to rebel and conform at the same time, you find yourself very confused, very insecure and very not sure of what you should do. That feels accurate.
22:25
And I think once you turn 40, especially as a woman, that's the time where you're like, okay, I have tried to conform. I have tried to rebel. I have found middle ground. I'm going to stay in the middle ground for a while and just be me. And then we're newsflash happy, crazy, happier. Yeah. Hopefully. Yeah. Yeah. Hopefully fingers crossed. But I don't think the age is the thing that that should keep anyone from trying out.
22:55
something that they're interested in. No, definitely not. It's just about exposure. I'm really proud of you for doing what you're doing, especially with a brand new baby at home. Thanks. I've just always wanted to have a family. think my ADHD is kind of a superpower in the kind of life that I want to live between
23:18
Okay, well want to know everything about raising a child. I want to know everything about raising a garden. I want to know everything about starting a business and starting to bake all these things. Like, being able to bounce between all the different interests has made my life kind of more manageable and my mental health happier. Well good, because you've got to take care of you first. uh So I'm assuming that you saw the email that went out a while ago from the cottage food.
23:47
law stuff in Minnesota about that we're going to be able to ship in Minnesota starting in I think 2027. Yes, I'm excited to see it, but I'm nervous to see if people are going to be willing to pay whatever the shipping costs are. Yeah, and it's going to depend on on how heavy the thing is that you're sending them. Because I mean, one of my loaves is two pounds already. So I mean, if people are going to ship canned goods, that can't be cheap either.
24:15
You know, honestly, I would never ship canned goods. I just wouldn't do it. I would be so worried about it coming shattered. Yep, I wouldn't even try. My mom lives in Maine, and obviously I'm in Minnesota, and she makes the best canned green beans. I love them. They're one of my favorite things on earth. She offered to ship me a couple jars, and I said, please don't.
24:41
She said, why you love them? And I said, because if they show up broken, I will just cry for days. Don't ship me green beans. Just devastating. Oh, it would be ridiculous. I would be crying over green beans and my husband would walk in the door and be like, what? Who died? And I'll be like, green beans died. OK, you know the travesty. But um I am very excited about the fact that we're finally going to be able to ship in Minnesota because a couple of years ago.
25:09
someone asked me if I could ship my granola to them in Northern Minnesota. And I couldn't because you're not allowed to until whatever the date is in 2027 now. And I had to tell them no. I believe it's August. Good. And I mean, that's only another year and a half away. But I was I was just so frustrated. And I for the life of me do not understand.
25:37
And I've ranted about this before and I'm going to shorten it up on this one. I don't understand because if it's a producer to consumer situation, if someone in Northern Minnesota orders granola from me, I make it in my cottage food registered business in my kitchen. I package it in my kitchen. I take it to the post office. I get a tracking number for it.
26:07
It goes to the home of the person that opened it or ordered it and they receive it and it has a tracking number.
26:16
You can track where it was made. You can track who it went to. Yep. It's it's driving me crazy. I do not understand. And why did they decide that we could ship in Minnesota, but we can't ship out of state? I wonder if that's due to other people's cottage laws. Like, have you looked at New York's cottage laws compared to ours? No. So strict, ridiculously strict to the point where it probably wouldn't even be worth it to have a cottage license because you can't
26:45
bake anything. Like maybe you could do a single loaf of bread with no inclusions. Because I don't think you can use chocolate in a bunch of things. can't use like it's yeah, I feel grateful for the freedom we do have in Minnesota, but also feeling like there's so much farther we have to go yet. Well, on my other podcast that I do with my co-host, my co-host was telling me that um for the first time in 250 years, which is how long we've been a country this year,
27:15
that our government representatives are as far removed from agriculture as they've ever been. True. And so I feel like sometimes the people who are making the laws don't have a working knowledge about what they're making the laws about. That feels really accurate. They might know politics and they know nothing else and then it's they create unreasonable standards. Yes.
27:45
They also are some of the people who are like, I don't need to buy sourdough from Cali in Mankato when I can go to Hy-Vee and buy a loaf of sourdough bread. Yeah, it's about convenience, suppose. Which additionally, I wish that one of the rules that had changed for 2027 had been that we would be able to occasionally sell our goods at a co-op or like I've been reached out to by
28:15
Have you heard of Seal Foods in lower North Mankato? I may have. They're fantastic and an incredible Asian grocery store. The only one that I'm aware of in southern Minnesota. uh they would have loved to work with me on making a milk bread to go with like a whipped cream and strawberry sandwich. But I'm not allowed to sell my bread to them to use in their deli stuff. Because of the commercial kitchen. Exactly. Exactly. And so I'm like, I know.
28:44
I know that my stuff is safe, but I'm not willing to risk my business in doing that. So I'm wondering if that'll be another change that maybe we'd see in five years, or if by that time I'll just have access to a commercial kitchen space that would be able to follow the rule of that law. You might. Stranger things have happened. True. ah So tell me, I'd like to keep these to half an hour and we got a couple of minutes left. Sorry. No, you're good.
29:13
Tell me about the Mankato Maker Space. my gosh. Okay, so they are this incredible, like if you are into skill learning and mutual aid, that is the place for you. um They can teach people how to do anything from metalsmithing to pottery to woodsmithing or carpentry and uh jewelry making, 3D printing. Like if you want to learn a hands-on artistic crafting or building skill, chances are they will have the
29:41
tool and the teacher for you. um can either take classes there or you can, um if you have a project in mind, you can become a member there and then as long as you take the safety courses, you can just use the tools yourself. They also put on markets for crafters to come in a few times a year and sell their wares there. So I'm not, uh I'm friends with a lot of people that help run it, but I'm not technically a member myself, but I come to all of the craft fairs that I possibly can.
30:09
uh And they also have these new things called Fix-It Clinics, where they're working with the community to maybe they have a couple volunteers and you can help fix a lamp. So it's helping the right to repair uh community as well. Like they're just so involved in getting people skills and opportunities to build that I think a lot of us have lost. They've always been so impressive to me. When I went to one of their events for the very first time when I first moved here about five years ago, um
30:40
I grew up in the church. I'm no longer part of a church. But walking into their event, where it people of all ages, all backgrounds, just kind of curious and loving on each other, felt like what I imagine other people experience in a church. Very nice. I'm going to have to get hold of them and see if somebody will talk to me on the podcast. I bet they would. They're really, truly fantastic. Yeah, because I'd love to get the word out about them. Do you know if they have set hours?
31:07
I believe they do have set hours, but they're quite extensive. I want to say it's like 9 a.m. to 9 p.m. Don't quote me. Well, you're obviously quoting me on a podcast, like it's fairly long hours availability wise. I'll look them up and put the links in the show notes so people get. All right, Callie, this went really fast. Holy cow. I love to gab. All right. Where can people find you?
31:32
I am on Facebook under Salt and Fern Bakehouse, Bakehouse is B-A-K-E-H-A-U-S. uh So Instagram, Facebook, and then I have a Bake-See, which is where they can put their orders in. And hopefully I will be back in ordering business by the end of the month. Well, I hope you are, but I'm going tell you having raised four kids, make sure that you get rest and make sure that you enjoy that baby before he's too big.
32:00
Oh, we are getting all of the cuddles. That boy does not want to sleep unless he is on top of me or my husband. So we are attached to the hip. Do not sacrifice this time when you're first baby because it doesn't come back. That's very good advice. I will keep that close to my heart. Yeah. I hate to, I hate to sound like your mom, but I've been through it and you don't get it back. All right. You can, as always, people can find me at AtinyHolmsteadPodcast.com. Kelly, thank you for sharing your time with me. I appreciate it.
32:29
Absolutely. Great talking with you. You too. Have a great day. You too.
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By Mary E LewisToday I'm talking with Cally at Salt & Fern Bakehaus. You can also follow on Facebook.
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00:00
If you're a homesteader who wants to get paid for your content without living on social media, check out SteelSpoonFarm.com. Founder Jen Kibler teaches you how to build a real blog or your email list and use Pinterest for sustainable marketing. Inside her coaching group, Content Seeds Collective, you'll get weekly live coaching, a private community, and access to her Root Seller Resource Library full of tutorials and templates. Join today for just $37 a month and start building a business that doesn't depend on the algorithm.
00:26
A Tiny Homestead podcast is sponsored by Sealspoon Farm. You're listening to A Tiny Homestead, the podcast comprised entirely of conversations with homesteaders, cottage food producers, and crafters. I'm your host, Mary Lewis. Today I'm talking with Cally at Salt and Fern Bakehouse in North Mankato, Minnesota. Good morning, Cally. How are you? Good morning. I am really happy to be here.
00:50
I'm glad to have you and I'm really glad that I didn't screw up the introduction because I have been stumbling over my words the last few episodes and I'm like, get it together, Mary. You know how to do this. That's moving for a cup of coffee. Yeah, I'm telling you. It's crazy. um Normally, I would say, how's the weather? But since you're about half an hour for me, I'm guessing the sun has just broken through the rain clouds from this morning.
01:15
It's still pretty cloudy here, unfortunately, but I'm sure the sun will be on its way. know we've got some 50 and 60 degree days coming up. I cannot wait. I am so excited. I am so ready for this winter to be over. Me too. Get me in the garden. Yep. Right there with you. My husband is itching. I said to him, I said, are you going to get seeds planted in the seed trays on the kitchen table this weekend? And he said, there will be no seedlings in the house this year. What?
01:44
And I said, okay, he said, I am starting everything in the greenhouse. Oh my gosh. Do have an exterior greenhouse or like those rollable ones? We have like a, I think it's 25. I don't, I don't know the exact dimensions. It is probably 15 by 30 feet. It is a, it's not one of the hoop houses. It's a hard sided greenhouse. What a dream.
02:12
Yes, I applied for a grant a couple of years ago and got the grant and the grant was to go for a greenhouse. So we are very... that through U of M Extension? It was through the market and entry fund. Okay. I'll have to take a peek at that someday. Yeah, I can send you the link to the website if you would like it. Please. That sounds fantastic. Yep. it's been up. The greenhouse has been up for two seasons now, but...
02:39
He's been leery about starting seeds in there because we had to figure out a way to use the sunlight without using the solar generator panels. And so we put water in IBC totes and we painted the IBC totes black. so starting about now when the sun is out and it's pouring into the greenhouse, it heats up the water and then the water disperses the heat at night. That's brilliant.
03:09
So this is the first year we're brave and we're going to try starting the seeds, you know, in the greenhouse. That's so exciting. What a new journey. We're very lit up about this around here and I'm just keeping everything I have crossed that it works because we sell at the farmer's market in the summer and if those babies die, we have to start again. So keep everything you have crossed for me that this works.
03:36
Absolutely, I will. Are you selling at Mankato or like up in Liss- because you're in Lissour, right? Yeah. Yeah, we sell at the Lissour Farmers Market. I'll have to come give that a peek sometime. Is that usually Saturdays? Yeah, Saturday morning from 8 until noon.
03:52
That sounds so fun. Yep. And it's a very busy, very robust, very friendly group of people who've been there. Oh, yeah. I'm definitely going to have to come give that a peek. Yeah. It's really fun. it's, I don't want to say it's really diverse, but there are definitely some different things. People sell crafts there too. Ooh. Like everything from lotions to artwork? um
04:20
I don't know about artwork, but there's a guy that takes traidel sewing machines and makes them into tractors, makes them look like tractors. There's a guy who does jewelry, like pendants and stuff. And there's a lady who is in her eighties who sells eggs every summer. And there's like three or four people selling baked goods. And that wasn't the case a couple summers ago, but this past summer.
04:49
there were like four or five people selling baked goods there. I wonder if that's just a sign of the economic times that people are starting to get out there and utilize their skills in a financially helpful way or if that's just like they just decided to pick it up at that time. I have no idea but my husband ends up bringing home treats because everybody's sharing and there's a lady who makes lemon cookies that are to die for. oh
05:17
That sounds really delicious. when he comes home with lemon cookies, he is he is like all stars in my book. I bet they don't last too long on the counter, huh? No. And he usually brings back like they're small. They're maybe the size of a half dollar or so. Perfect. So if you bite that, if he brings home six, they're mine and they're gone in about 10 minutes. What a blessing. I love it. I love lemon. All right. So tell me a little bit about yourself and what you do.
05:46
Well, I obviously, you know that I have my little bakery, my salt and fern bakehouse um started out doing sourdough a couple years back. I think I believe I started during the pandemic um and then started selling about a year and a half ago now. um It was just something a little therapeutic and I like keeping things alive. this sourdough starter was uh the next logical step, I guess. um
06:16
And then people liked it and I was like, well, maybe I can be a neighborhood baker, even if I'm not gonna have an actual shop open. I can at least provide Mankato with a few extra loaves. uh And uh I like knowing where a lot of my food comes from. Local food is really important to me. My degree back in the day was with food systems, consumers and markets. So I am under the impression that honestly, buying local.
06:45
does more for the environment than even specifically buying organic can help because of the gas mileage that it takes. um It seems like buying local saves a lot of energy costs as well as em you tend to hold people responsible more when you actually know where you're getting your product from. for sure. And every dollar you spend locally stays local for the most part.
07:15
Exactly, exactly. So back in the local economy and ah that can only help my neighbors further. Yep, absolutely. uh We actually don't have any eggs in our farm stand this morning because somebody bought the last six dozen last night. Whoa. And I feel bad that there's no eggs in the farm stand today. How many chickens you guys have? 18. Nice, a good number, a solid chicken math number. Yes, it's not crazy. It's not too few. It's not too many. That's so smart.
07:45
But yes, I am. I swear I say get to know your local farmer and producer on every episode of this that I do because I am such a proponent for it because it is crazy to me that we can buy eggs from California at our local grocery stores. Yeah, which is wild because Minnesota used to have some of the most chicken farmers to my understanding in the nation. I don't know if that's true to this day, but it used to be.
08:15
Yeah, I don't know. And again, I'm going to repeat myself as I do. It is coming up on bird flu season, season for this. And I want, I want my neighbors to be able to have eggs. So if eggs go up in price again at the stores because of egg, because of bird flu, I want my neighbors to know that they have another source where they can pay $5 a dozen, not 10 or $12 a dozen. So right. True.
08:43
I'm lucky enough to have both my sister-in-law and my mom-in-law both raise chickens and then I have another friend in Mapleton who also raises chickens so they're usually pretty willing to trade bread for eggs when I'm in need which is, you know, even cheaper than a cash payment in my life. Oh, absolutely. Speaking of sourdough, I just got my new sourdough starter started on Tuesday. Do you have a name for them yet? I don't name them. Fair enough.
09:12
I figure that they're probably gonna die so I don't name them. Once I get one that actually lives for longer than a month and a half, I'll start naming it. Did you start it yourself or is this do you receive them from other people and then keep them alive? I received the first one last year from a friend and I was moving the jar over to my island to feed it and I dropped the jar and it shattered. No, RIP. Yeah, so that one went away real quick.
09:41
And then I decided to start my own and they were doing, did two and they were doing really well. And then they got the dreaded pink mold. No, no. And you can't come back from that. Nope. Those went in the trash too. And I was very disappointed because they were at that point where you put the spoon in and you dragged the spoon through it and it crackles because of all the bubbles. That's so satisfying. I was so mad. So I started this one last Tuesday and yesterday I pulled half of it out and added the
10:09
the flour in the water and stirred it up and I looked at it this morning and it's got bubbles all around the glass. I was like, okay, so another three, four, five days and maybe I can make a loaf. Maybe. I will be crossing my fingers and toes for you. That is the most exciting part. It is. And I've made two loaves so far. And I know this episode is not supposed to be about me, but I've made two loaves. The first one.
10:38
came out okay. was slightly undercooked and it was almost like a bagel texture. And it was yummy. I didn't even care that it wasn't not all the way cooked because I love bagels. Like the flavor, you can't beat the flavor of sourdough. It just doesn't compare to anything that you can find on grocery store shelves that's made to last. I know sourdough will disappear usually before it can mold luckily, otherwise it molds within a week.
11:07
And then my grocery store loaves will sit there for two months and still look like they did before we even, look like they did when we got them in the first place. Which is really scary. The second loaf I did, it was less undercooked, less baggily. Nice. like I was making progress and then I got the pink mold and had to stop. So did you know you can freeze some of your starter as well? I'm going to do that this time. Good choice.
11:36
Good choice, because then you can always bring it back. way if anything happens to the one that's going, I will have a backup because I really like the fact that I'm trying to do this because I don't like store-bought sourdough because it's so sourdough. Sure. Well, do you know why that is? No. Okay, so grocery stores, don't have enough time to do the three-day process that it usually takes to make a true loaf of sourdough. So they often are a yeasted dough.
12:06
that adds like essence of sourdough into it to make it sour, but it doesn't have the fermentation process that a true sourdough has. Oh, yeah, it's not my favorite thing. Yeah, so I learned that in the process of screwing up the first attempt, that it doesn't have to be super sour to still have the benefits of sourdough. Yeah, it's still, the yeast is still eating all of the sugars out of it.
12:33
not out of it, out of it, but like making it way more digestible. Yes. And I don't love the sour sour dough. So when I learned that I could make bread that I actually like to taste of that I would get the benefits from, I was very excited. Life changing, truly. Your sandwiches will never be the same. No. And there's something about the chew of a sour dough bread that I love. It's dense. It can actually hold up to like a BLT, a juicy garden tomato won't just fall right through it.
13:04
So I have all kinds of great things to say about sourdough. I love sourdough now that I know about it. And now I know it doesn't have to taste like vinegar. Helpful. So made me very happy to discover this. And if my friend hadn't given me the starter a year ago or whatever it was, I wouldn't be doing it now. Well, I'm glad you're here with us. Yeah, I've been assimilated. It's always wonderful when your friends invite you into their adventure. Truly.
13:31
That's how we get to be curious and grow together and then maybe have a little guidance where we need it when we're just starting out. So tell me about your cottage kitchen because I was looking at your Facebook page and it looks like you have some pretty hefty equipment. So how are you doing this? um Well, I just got a new simply bread oven earlier this year and it just got hooked up as of basically yesterday.
13:58
um So that's my heftiest piece of equipment because I've otherwise just been baking two loaves at a time in my Dutch ovens and that was you know, if you're baking from 5 a.m. Until 10 11 p.m. Before a market it's a little more exhausting So my capacity to be able to do 12 loaves at once now is going to be absolutely life-changing
14:21
Oh, yes. Oh, I screamed. was just completely overjoyed and then had my husband and four of his buddies come help carry it inside because that was not a one-man job. uh And then I also have uh a new mixer that allows me to do 10 loaves uh at a time that was a lot more helpful than trying to mix all of my dough by hand. I might even upgrade this year to have a second one so my timing can be more. uh I can do more loaves in the same amount of time again.
14:52
Do you have all of this in a small house or how is this working? Yeah, it's just uh a typical Midwestern Rambler kitchen. um I have a pretty big dining room table that most of the stuff gets set upon. My sister is a carpenter and she built it for me. And yeah, I think it's like an eight foot table and it's real sturdy so it can handle all the shakes that come from the mixer. uh But yeah, most of it.
15:21
Probably most of my work takes place within a like a 10 foot square of my house. Wow. And honestly, I say wow and I shouldn't because I used to make like major meals in a galley style kitchen at our old house. So I know. get it. I know what can be done. It's just it's just that I always think that things are much, much bigger than they are. It's why I've been like, oh, people are like, oh, when are you going to open a physical location? I'm like, I'm not.
15:49
I can get everything done here in this small space without paying for a lease. Yeah, that's a smart way to do it and it keeps your profits coming to you not going into rent. That's the hope. Because most of the businesses that I've seen that did take that step in my childhood, they never made it to the seven-year mark. Have you heard that thing of like, if you make it to seven years, you can be established there for 20, 30, 40. But if you don't make it to the seven-year mark, then you were kind of always doomed.
16:19
Yeah, I have. And it's either three years or seven years for any business. Sure. Sure, sure, Yeah. So I'm nervous to like start that and start that timer. I'm like, I'll just keep baking out of my kitchen until capacity is such that I cannot handle what people are asking for anymore. Yes. And that leads me to my next question. uh You started this a year two ago. So how is business? it?
16:46
Is it robust? Is it growing? Is it stagnant? How is it going? I would say in general, it's growing. I've been kind of on a two-ish month hiatus with the newborn. ah All of my brain cells have kind of gone into that small child at the moment, but I'm starting up again this weekend ah with the first experimental loaves out of the new oven. And uh in general, I would say I probably have been selling, you know, when I was still going whole hog at this, I was probably selling
17:16
10 to 15 loaves a week on my Monday pickup days. But then every time I would do an actual market, like at the Mankato Makerspace, I would sell out within three hours, no matter how much product I made. um So I feel like if I can start doing farmers markets this year, that would really be an excellent opportunity on my end. And then I would probably continue doing the weekly pickups, although I'm
17:41
trying to decide if more people would be willing to do pickups if I made pick up day Saturday instead of Monday. But I just figured like, oh, you want to start your work week with fresh bread instead of start your weekend with it. But there's a lot of experimentation and growth yet to still happen. I feel very young in my process of this all, which is kind of crazy that people have been appreciating what I've been doing to the extent they have because I feel so
18:10
Not unprepared, just it's unexpected to be appreciated in the way it's been. Yes, yes. I know exactly what you're talking about because we all suffer from imposter syndrome. When we start something new, it's like, OK, I'm going to try this. Yeah. Then it goes well. The first whatever span of time. And the further you get into it, you're like, I got a handle on this.
18:39
and then you take that next step. And then you go through it again. Do I know what I'm doing? Who am I to try this? Right. Who am I to explain it to other people? And I still feel like there's miles and miles of knowledge still yet to be gained before I could call myself any kind of a true expert or baker in general. I still feel like such a novice. And then my friends are like, no, you're awesome. You can teach me these things. like, I don't feel like that's a huge responsibility.
19:08
I'm still making so many mistakes. What do you mean? Yeah, but every journey starts with the first step. True. And I'm willing to make a million of those because I'm a curious, nonsensical human. Yes, I'm like that too. I started this podcast over two and a half years ago now. That's awesome. I had no idea how to do it, where to start. And I just Googled everything and made notes and drove myself crazy.
19:37
for three months before I ever record an episode. That's awesome. And I mean, you know, the school of YouTube definitely helps for a lot of things like that as well, I imagine. I didn't even really look at YouTube. Really? Helpful. Nice though. Good. Nope. I just went out and looked at what other people did on their podcasts. And then I typed in, how do I start a podcast in Google? Word. And all kinds of help. So.
20:06
If for the listener, if you want to start something that you're interested in, try it. Yeah, just do it. Just take the first step. It does not have to be perfect. No. And if you find out you hate it, you don't have to keep doing it. True sunk cost fallacy. It's it's real and you don't have to do it. Yeah. And no one's going to punch you in the face for trying something new. No. And then you'll know more about yourself when you come out of it. Uh huh. Yep.
20:35
Absolutely. I am again a proponent of people following their dreams. Don't drown in them. If they're not going well, don't keep doing it. Right. But try it. You never know what's going to happen. Give it a shot, man. Yeah, absolutely. And I'm old. I'm 56 years old and I started a podcast when I was 53 or 54. If I can do this, anybody can do something.
21:01
I feel like is not even that old these days. I feel like you have so much more of sense of yourself at 54 that you probably have more freedom. I think that's what actually saved me. Is that I was like, nobody cares. Nobody cares what I do. I am not out to impress anybody anymore. I'm just gonna try it. And that's what frees you. Like then you can just do exactly what you want because it's like, well, who cares? Who's gonna tell me no? No one. No one is gonna...
21:31
like yell at me for trying new things these days. Yes, and if you're 16 years old, the same thing holds true. You don't have to be constrained by other people's opinions. You have to be true to yourself. I feel like that's a much harder lesson to learn at 16 than in my 30s. Oh, I would never have done anything like this at 16, ever.
21:57
Do think it's because of the communities we've built up that we know have our backs or is it just our sense of self? I think that when we are in our teens, we're trying to rebel and conform at the same time. um And when you're trying to rebel and conform at the same time, you find yourself very confused, very insecure and very not sure of what you should do. That feels accurate.
22:25
And I think once you turn 40, especially as a woman, that's the time where you're like, okay, I have tried to conform. I have tried to rebel. I have found middle ground. I'm going to stay in the middle ground for a while and just be me. And then we're newsflash happy, crazy, happier. Yeah. Hopefully. Yeah. Yeah. Hopefully fingers crossed. But I don't think the age is the thing that that should keep anyone from trying out.
22:55
something that they're interested in. No, definitely not. It's just about exposure. I'm really proud of you for doing what you're doing, especially with a brand new baby at home. Thanks. I've just always wanted to have a family. think my ADHD is kind of a superpower in the kind of life that I want to live between
23:18
Okay, well want to know everything about raising a child. I want to know everything about raising a garden. I want to know everything about starting a business and starting to bake all these things. Like, being able to bounce between all the different interests has made my life kind of more manageable and my mental health happier. Well good, because you've got to take care of you first. uh So I'm assuming that you saw the email that went out a while ago from the cottage food.
23:47
law stuff in Minnesota about that we're going to be able to ship in Minnesota starting in I think 2027. Yes, I'm excited to see it, but I'm nervous to see if people are going to be willing to pay whatever the shipping costs are. Yeah, and it's going to depend on on how heavy the thing is that you're sending them. Because I mean, one of my loaves is two pounds already. So I mean, if people are going to ship canned goods, that can't be cheap either.
24:15
You know, honestly, I would never ship canned goods. I just wouldn't do it. I would be so worried about it coming shattered. Yep, I wouldn't even try. My mom lives in Maine, and obviously I'm in Minnesota, and she makes the best canned green beans. I love them. They're one of my favorite things on earth. She offered to ship me a couple jars, and I said, please don't.
24:41
She said, why you love them? And I said, because if they show up broken, I will just cry for days. Don't ship me green beans. Just devastating. Oh, it would be ridiculous. I would be crying over green beans and my husband would walk in the door and be like, what? Who died? And I'll be like, green beans died. OK, you know the travesty. But um I am very excited about the fact that we're finally going to be able to ship in Minnesota because a couple of years ago.
25:09
someone asked me if I could ship my granola to them in Northern Minnesota. And I couldn't because you're not allowed to until whatever the date is in 2027 now. And I had to tell them no. I believe it's August. Good. And I mean, that's only another year and a half away. But I was I was just so frustrated. And I for the life of me do not understand.
25:37
And I've ranted about this before and I'm going to shorten it up on this one. I don't understand because if it's a producer to consumer situation, if someone in Northern Minnesota orders granola from me, I make it in my cottage food registered business in my kitchen. I package it in my kitchen. I take it to the post office. I get a tracking number for it.
26:07
It goes to the home of the person that opened it or ordered it and they receive it and it has a tracking number.
26:16
You can track where it was made. You can track who it went to. Yep. It's it's driving me crazy. I do not understand. And why did they decide that we could ship in Minnesota, but we can't ship out of state? I wonder if that's due to other people's cottage laws. Like, have you looked at New York's cottage laws compared to ours? No. So strict, ridiculously strict to the point where it probably wouldn't even be worth it to have a cottage license because you can't
26:45
bake anything. Like maybe you could do a single loaf of bread with no inclusions. Because I don't think you can use chocolate in a bunch of things. can't use like it's yeah, I feel grateful for the freedom we do have in Minnesota, but also feeling like there's so much farther we have to go yet. Well, on my other podcast that I do with my co-host, my co-host was telling me that um for the first time in 250 years, which is how long we've been a country this year,
27:15
that our government representatives are as far removed from agriculture as they've ever been. True. And so I feel like sometimes the people who are making the laws don't have a working knowledge about what they're making the laws about. That feels really accurate. They might know politics and they know nothing else and then it's they create unreasonable standards. Yes.
27:45
They also are some of the people who are like, I don't need to buy sourdough from Cali in Mankato when I can go to Hy-Vee and buy a loaf of sourdough bread. Yeah, it's about convenience, suppose. Which additionally, I wish that one of the rules that had changed for 2027 had been that we would be able to occasionally sell our goods at a co-op or like I've been reached out to by
28:15
Have you heard of Seal Foods in lower North Mankato? I may have. They're fantastic and an incredible Asian grocery store. The only one that I'm aware of in southern Minnesota. uh they would have loved to work with me on making a milk bread to go with like a whipped cream and strawberry sandwich. But I'm not allowed to sell my bread to them to use in their deli stuff. Because of the commercial kitchen. Exactly. Exactly. And so I'm like, I know.
28:44
I know that my stuff is safe, but I'm not willing to risk my business in doing that. So I'm wondering if that'll be another change that maybe we'd see in five years, or if by that time I'll just have access to a commercial kitchen space that would be able to follow the rule of that law. You might. Stranger things have happened. True. ah So tell me, I'd like to keep these to half an hour and we got a couple of minutes left. Sorry. No, you're good.
29:13
Tell me about the Mankato Maker Space. my gosh. Okay, so they are this incredible, like if you are into skill learning and mutual aid, that is the place for you. um They can teach people how to do anything from metalsmithing to pottery to woodsmithing or carpentry and uh jewelry making, 3D printing. Like if you want to learn a hands-on artistic crafting or building skill, chances are they will have the
29:41
tool and the teacher for you. um can either take classes there or you can, um if you have a project in mind, you can become a member there and then as long as you take the safety courses, you can just use the tools yourself. They also put on markets for crafters to come in a few times a year and sell their wares there. So I'm not, uh I'm friends with a lot of people that help run it, but I'm not technically a member myself, but I come to all of the craft fairs that I possibly can.
30:09
uh And they also have these new things called Fix-It Clinics, where they're working with the community to maybe they have a couple volunteers and you can help fix a lamp. So it's helping the right to repair uh community as well. Like they're just so involved in getting people skills and opportunities to build that I think a lot of us have lost. They've always been so impressive to me. When I went to one of their events for the very first time when I first moved here about five years ago, um
30:40
I grew up in the church. I'm no longer part of a church. But walking into their event, where it people of all ages, all backgrounds, just kind of curious and loving on each other, felt like what I imagine other people experience in a church. Very nice. I'm going to have to get hold of them and see if somebody will talk to me on the podcast. I bet they would. They're really, truly fantastic. Yeah, because I'd love to get the word out about them. Do you know if they have set hours?
31:07
I believe they do have set hours, but they're quite extensive. I want to say it's like 9 a.m. to 9 p.m. Don't quote me. Well, you're obviously quoting me on a podcast, like it's fairly long hours availability wise. I'll look them up and put the links in the show notes so people get. All right, Callie, this went really fast. Holy cow. I love to gab. All right. Where can people find you?
31:32
I am on Facebook under Salt and Fern Bakehouse, Bakehouse is B-A-K-E-H-A-U-S. uh So Instagram, Facebook, and then I have a Bake-See, which is where they can put their orders in. And hopefully I will be back in ordering business by the end of the month. Well, I hope you are, but I'm going tell you having raised four kids, make sure that you get rest and make sure that you enjoy that baby before he's too big.
32:00
Oh, we are getting all of the cuddles. That boy does not want to sleep unless he is on top of me or my husband. So we are attached to the hip. Do not sacrifice this time when you're first baby because it doesn't come back. That's very good advice. I will keep that close to my heart. Yeah. I hate to, I hate to sound like your mom, but I've been through it and you don't get it back. All right. You can, as always, people can find me at AtinyHolmsteadPodcast.com. Kelly, thank you for sharing your time with me. I appreciate it.
32:29
Absolutely. Great talking with you. You too. Have a great day. You too.