In this episode, we talk to designer and organizer Bryan Lee, Jr., continuing our earlier conversation with De Nichols on the #DesignAsProtest collective and delving more deeply into the history of the broader design justice movement. We also talk about unlearning extractive frameworks in the design process, the work of Dark Matter University to restructure pedagogy toward antiracism and liberation, and the gaps in current sustainability discourse around conditions of economic and aesthetic scarcity in Black communities as they relate to environmental scarcity.