In this episode of the KLC Preaching Podcast, Truett preaching professor Jared Alcántara interviews Fuller Seminary leadership professor Tod Bolsinger, an accomplished author, speaker, and adaptive leadership expert. He asks Dr. Bolsinger about his conversion and call, his connection to Lloyd John Ogilve, how his preaching and leadership changed when he was a pastor, and about how trust and transformation are not the same in leadership and preaching. They also discuss key insights from one of Bolsinger's latest books, "Invest in Transformation" (2024).