Spencer and Laurie interview Brian Zahnd, pastor of Word of Life Church, St. Joseph, MO. We discuss why some people decide to break from destructive ideas of faith, like Christian nationalism, and why many don’t. We also have a conversation about the church’s mission and what its role should be on grave issues like environmental destruction and war.

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Word of Life Church is on YouTube, and Zahnd’s sermons are podcasted on most platforms.