If you’ve bought six pairs of cheap, mediocre black leggings instead of one quality pair to “save money”, this episode is for you.

Caitlin invited her lifelong family friend who happens to be an international home-organizing legend and life-decluttering queen, Shira Gill, to talk about how owning less stuff can actually buy you more time, money, and mental peace.

What’s that like??

Caitlin admits she might be Pigpen from Peanuts if Pigpen also had a kid, a car full of granola bar wrappers, leaking dog water bowls, and a complicated relationship with Buy Nothing groups.

Shira tells us about her “rule of one” and Caitlin tries to hide her hostility towards someone who’s so “rational” and doesn’t have all available surfaces covered in 17-step projects that will never happen. (But seriously, what would you do with a maybe-non-working-but-maybe-valuable Frogger console from 1983??)

Shira gives lots of good, practical, non-judgy advice about managing external chaos and the tyranny of following clothing and parenting trends.

Oh! And Sara’s here too! She and Shira get in cahoots about how financial clutter and house clutter might actually be the same species.

We highly recommend getting lots more Shira (she takes up no counter space!) at @shira_gill on Instagram, on Substack or buy her latest book, LifeStyled!

Ask us your dumb investing and finance questions, or just say hi! on our Ask Us page!

We have the social medias!! Here’s our Instagram and Facebook and LinkedIn.

This episode was edited by our co-producer Kelly West. Music by Bad Bad Hats and Devmo.