"The hostility that you feel, one of the purposes is to make you feel ashamed and to hinder you, to make sure you don't act, or you don't aspire, or you don't fight back." 

Marcela Kunova has been an immigrant in four countries in the last 20 years. She's had time to deconstruct xenophobia. In a deeply personal conversation, we discussed how shame can be internalized and weaponized against immigrants, how it limits us, but also how we can rise in spite of it. We chatted about mental health, vulnerability, belonging, language barriers and how the tide is turning against immigrants. Perhaps the most intimate episode yet. 

Explore further: 

• Brené Brown's TED talk on shame
• My episode on the journalism.co.uk podcast