For many, the term “inclusion” is the end all for social justice efforts. But, in her new book, Erin Raffety suggests that “inclusion” doesn’t work, at least in churches with disabled people. Listen to this quote: “The church is called apart from the world to repent of its ableism, disown its power, abandon inclusion, and pursue justice alongside disabled people.” Throughout her book she clarifies why inclusions falters and what justice might look like. She does this by interpreting scripture, drawing from her ethnographic research with congregations in Northeastern America, and engaging with disability activists and scholars. So, you’ll get to hear about some of those things in our conversation. I’m excited for you to hear it.

Erin Raffety is Associate Research Scholar at Princeton Theological Seminary and Research Fellow in Machine Intelligence & Pastoral Care at the Center for Theological Inquiry in Princeton, New Jersey. She is the author of From Inclusion to Justice, the book we’re discussing today, which is out now through Baylor University Press.

And I’m grateful also that Dr. Devan Stahl joined us for this conversation as a cohost. Devan is Assistant Professor of Religion here at Baylor University and author of a new book called Disability’s Challenge to Theology (UND Press). You can listen to us discuss Devan's book in our episode "An Era of Soft Eugenics?"