Susan Milender: Welcome to thriving on the prairie. This is a podcast exploring issues concerning families and communities that inspires North Dakota movers shakers and community difference makers to engage in lifelong learning. I'm Susan Milender, NDSU Extension family and community wellness agent and I'm located in Barnes County. And today I have the honor of visiting with Carrie Johnson, who's our NDSU specialist for family and  personal finance. So today, Carrie, we get to discuss holiday spending or maybe how not to spend during the holidays. And, you know, to start off, Carrie, I just want to say that the holidays come every year at the same time. And every year, I'm surprised that it snuck up on me.

Carrie Johnson: Yeah, so we're quickly entering this holiday season of 2020 you know this year, more than others, has been a difficult year to plan for the future. So it can really almost feel like ‘The Nightmare Before Christmas’. Ideally, people would have started saving for the holidays. Shortly after the New Year, in January. But many people’s circumstances changed so rapidly this year or uncertainty is really impacted people's ability to save. It does feel like the holidays came a little earlier this year than they typically do.

Susan: I know Carrie, just really seriously snuck up on me and you know, I love that you said, ‘The Nightmare Before Christmas’ because I can continue with that thread. By saying that I don't want to be a grinch this holiday season, even though I didn't really plan. So, you know, after all, this is the season of COVID. So who can really plan? Every day is totally different. Right?

Carrie: Exactly. 

Susan: So, you know,  …..And I think that the holidays are stressful enough. And then we add this unpredictable nature of our economy and shutdowns, and maybe like less hours at work or less items on the store shelves, or….. gosh, delayed deliveries and not to mention that social distancing factor. So I guess I could go on and on, but, you know, Carrie I sound like a negative Nelly, sorry.

Carrie: Yeah. You know, I think we could be negative about the 2020 holiday season. Or we could change our attitude and find that silver lining. Even though this year might look a little different than it has in the past, it could really be an opportunity to re-envision and reimagine what we think of the holidays. A word I've been trying to use a lot lately is pivot. So now I know not everyone likes change, family holiday traditions are a big part of this time of year. And it's really fun to dream about something that looks like one of those hallmark movies or a Pinterest picture, but we really need to be careful not to compare ourselves with others. Everyone's circumstances are different. The reality is that if we're strategic and we make a plan, we can really find ways to celebrate the holidays this year without breaking the bank.

Susan Milender: Yeah, so, you know, Carrie, right now as you were talking, I was thinking about Christmas coming up and all of the holiday traditions. So, you know, if I were sitting on Santa's knee right now. I think that I would ask him for that holiday season filled with sugar plum fairies for everyone, just like you said, I love that Pinterest pictures because I had those rolling through my mind. But you know what the reality is with this year, some people are facing tough financial times. And yet others have had that good fortune of being able to continue on their regular path. So, you know, either way, we all want to be really smart with our money, and we don't want to end up with that debt hangover in January. So I'm really thankful that you're going to walk us through some tips for our finances in this holiday season.

Carrie Johnson: Yeah, exactly. And there are some tips that we can all take away, like you said, whether you've had some issues with financial or some financial issues recently, or things are status quo and they’re normal. Everybody can always look at some financial tips in their lives. So the first thing I really wanted to share this time of year is to set a holiday budget, which is going to be different than your typical household monthly budget. You know, how much can you realistically spend without causing future financial problems this holiday season? Will you spend the same amount that you typically do that you have in past years? Or are you gonna be spending more because you might not be traveling? Or are you going to be spending less just to save for the future a little bit and not put yourself in a financial strain? But either way, we really need to have a dollar amount set to make sure that we don't overspend.

Susan: You know, Carrie, I think you just swore - I think budget should be like a four-letter word sometimes. So, you know, we're getting closer and closer to Christmas. And I'm going to just say, I have not made out a holiday budget. So where would I start?

Carrie: First thing you need to do is make a list, I would say. Make a list. Check it twice. Write down absolutely all of your expenses that you typically have this time of year. Do you buy gifts, your food for meals for get-togethers, which you might not be having as much this year. Or baked goods, maybe your travel expenses, decorations - are you going to purchase more decorations. This year, more than ever, people are starting to decorate a little earlier to bring up their spirits. So maybe you are going to spend a little bit more on decorations and thinking of other things like postage and shipping. 

Susan: Oh boy.

Carrie: So when you're listing your gifts, especially list every single person that you usually buy something for along with the amount that you plan on spending for that person. Include all people. This means small gifts, like your office gift exchange, you might not think of $15 as being a big deal, or your child's teacher's gifts. But all of these small expenses really add up fast.

Susan : Yeah, you know Carrie, I’m always surprised when I think back to my Christmas and I... I look at all the big gifts, but I never think about all the stocking stuffers and little gifts that I hand out here and there, jeeze you’re right they can really add up. But you know what Carrie, I love, love, love your ideas of lists and I do make a list of ideas for people. But here's where I run into a problem. And frankly, I'm not sure that you can help me with this problem because it's a discipline problem, but I'm going to hope that you have an idea. So here's what happens. I buy gifts for somebody on my list and then as it gets closer to them closer to Christmas or the holidays, I end up buying something more, and then just because I have this fear of being unfair, I buy... I feel like I have to buy for everybody else, to up the ante. So if I give five gifts to someone, I want to give five gifts to someone else, if I spend $25 on somebody. I want to spend $25 on them. So it becomes this vicious circle. So I guess I have to just stick to my list???

Carrie: You know, it is difficult to stick to a budget and stick to a list sometimes, it takes commitment. You know, creating a budget is one thing. And I just do also want to want to stick this in there when you said you love lists, but budgeting, not so much. Think of a budget as a list, right? If you like to cross things off on a list. Think of your budget as a list and tracking is kind of like you're crossing things off. Just a little non holiday trick for you.

Susan: I love that. That's empowering for me.

Carrie: Yeah, there you go. You know, but creating that budget...