Our two guests this episode are Ruud Cino and Frank Swartjes. Ruud is the deputy director strategy new energy system at the Dutch Ministry of Economic Affairs and Climate and Frank is an expert on soil pollution from the Dutch National Institute of Public Health and the Environment (RIVM). We talk about the role of "healthy" soil in our society and we discuss the challenge of finding a balance between sustainability, soil usage and economic demands, and we get a glimpse of what it is like when scientists and policymakers collaborate.