Key Change is a conversation series within Song Exploder, where I talk to fascinating people about the music that's transformed them. 

My guest today is Hanif Abdurraqib, a poet, cultural critic, and New York Times bestselling author of books like They Can't Kill us Until They Kill Us, Go Ahead in the Rain: Notes to A Tribe Called Quest, and A Little Devil in America, which won the Andrew Carnegie medal for nonfiction. I've been a guest on Hanif's podcast, Object of Sound, and I just love reading and hearing his thoughts about music. When I first started toying with the idea for this Key Change series, I was specifically excited about the idea that it could give me the chance to have Hanif on as a guest.

For more, visit songexploder.net/keychange. 

You can listen to "Lost in the Supermarket" by The Clash here. 

Sasami is a singer, songwriter and producer who grew up in Los Angeles. But now she’s based in Northern California, and as you’ll hear in this episode, that’s significant. Sasami went to school for classical French horn. She was in the band Cherry Glazerr, and she’s had a lot of collaborations with other artists on their projects and her own. Collaboration is at the heart of the song that I talked to her about for this episode. It’s called “In Love With A Memory,” and it features Clairo on vocals, and it was co-produced with Grammy-winning producer Rostam. The song is on Sasami’s third album, Blood on the Silver Screen, which is out March 2025. Coming up, you’ll hear the original voice memos that she recorded for this song back in the fall of 2022. You’ll also hear the demo she made in Garageband after that, and then how she and Rostam turned that demo into the final version, a duet with Clairo.

For more info, visit songexploder.net/sasami.

Kevin Barnes started of Montreal in 1996 in Athens, Georgia. The Sunlandic Twins came out in 2005; it was their seventh album. And I remember when that album came out, how it felt like they were suddenly everywhere. And the breakout song from that breakout album was “Wraith Pinned to the Mist and Other Games.” And so, for this episode, I spoke to Kevin Barnes about how that song came together, and what it meant to them then, and what it means to them now. 

For more info, visit songexploder.net/of-montreal.

Key Change is a new conversation series within Song Exploder, where I talk to fascinating people about the music that's transformed them.

My first guest is Sophie Thatcher, an actor and musician whose credits include starring in the TV show Yellowjackets, the film Heretic, and the new movie Companion. I met Sophie through Companion, because I composed the score to the film, and she contributes vocals to a few of the tracks I wrote. For this episode, we discussed how "Waltz #1" by Elliott Smith shaped Sophie's tastes and work. 

For more, visit songexploder.net/keychange. 

You can listen to "Waltz #1" by Elliott Smith here. 

Yola is a singer/songwriter and actress. She released her solo debut album in 2019, which was nominated for 4 Grammys, including Best New Artist and Best Americana Album, and Rolling Stone named it one of the best country albums of the year. But the thing is, Yola’s music career wasn’t new, and her background wasn’t in country music. She’s from Bristol in the UK, and starting back in the early 2000s, she was a vocalist recording tracks for DJs and electronic music producers. In January 2025, Yola put out an EP called My Way. And as you’ll hear her explain in this episode, a lot of her new music is motivated by wanting to assert her identity beyond the Americana and country music boundaries. In addition to her music, she’s also acting – she played Sister Rosetta Tharpe in the 2022 film Elvis, and she starred on Broadway in the musical Hadestown. For this episode, I talked to Yola about her song “Symphony,” along with co-writer and co-producer Sean Douglas. Yola and Sean trace the journey of the song “Symphony,” and, along with it, Yola traces her own journey, too.

For more info, visit songexploder.net/yola.

Adrianne Lenker is a singer and songwriter. She’s the lead singer of the critically acclaimed and beloved band Big Thief, and her work as a solo artist is also critically acclaimed and beloved. Her most recent solo album, Bright Future, was named one of the best albums of 2024 by the New Yorker, Stereogum, and more, and it was nominated for a Grammy for Best Folk Album. It was co-produced by Adrianne and longtime collaborator Phil Weinrobe. And I talked to the two of them about the making of one of my favorite songs from it, “Sadness As a Gift.”

For more, visit songexploder.net/adrianne-lenker.

Sabrina Carpenter is a singer, songwriter, and actress. She had a huge year with her album Short N Sweet, which came out in August 2024. It debuted at #1, and went platinum within a month. At the upcoming Grammys, she’s nominated for Song of the Year, Record of the Year, Album of the Year, and more. One of her big hits is “Please Please Please,” which she wrote with Amy Allen and producer Jack Antonoff. He’s won Producer of the Year at the Grammys for the last three years in a row. For this episode, I talked to Sabrina and Jack about everything that went into making “Please Please Please.” 

For more, visit songexploder.net/sabrina-carpenter. 

Gracie Abrams is a singer and songwriter from Los Angeles. She started putting out music in 2020, and in June 2024, she put out her second album, The Secret of Us. She was nominated for a Grammy for Best New Artist, and this year she’s up for another Grammy, for Best Duo Performance, for her collaboration with Taylor Swift. But for this episode, I talked to Gracie about her song “I Love You, I’m Sorry.” It was produced by Aaron Dessner, at Long Pond Studio in upstate New York, and it was co-written with Audrey Hobert.

Coming up, you’ll hear the isolated tracks from the studio recording, but you’ll also get to hear a lot of the voice memos that Gracie recorded during the writing process. I think it’s so nice to have these raw moments documented because, as you’ll hear, they give you an insight not just into the song, but into the relationship that Gracie and her co-writer Audrey have as friends.

For more, visit songexploder.net/gracie-abrams. 

Katie Crutchfield is a singer and songwriter from Birmingham, Alabama. She’s been making music under the name Waxahatchee since 2010. Her fifth album, Saint Cloud, came out this past March. Pitchfork named it Best New Music, and The Guardian called it the best album of the year so far. In this episode, Katie breaks down how she made the song “Fire."

This episode was originally published July 29, 2020.

For more, visit songexploder.net/waxahatchee.

Le Tigre originally formed in 1998. They released their self-titled debut album in October 1999. Spin Magazine called it one of the best albums of the past 30 years, and Pitchfork called it one of the best albums of the 90s. I listened to that album a lot when it came out, and 25 years later, I still hear songs from it everywhere, on TV and in movies, and just out in the world – especially the song “Deceptacon.” For this episode, I talked to Kathleen Hanna and Johanna Fateman from Le Tigre about how they wrote it, and how they put the track together.

For more, visit songexploder.net/le-tigre.