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In this full-length interview, Spoiled Fruit sits down with Ken Wilson, founding pastor of Vineyard Church of Ann Arbor and one of the movement's earliest and most respected leaders.

For decades, Ken was known as a thoughtful, compassionate voice within the Vineyard - until he did something few pastors dared to do: publicly express support for LGBTQ+ inclusion. Despite years of faithful service, Ken was quietly pushed out, his legacy downplayed, and the church he founded taken over by those unwilling to even speak his name.

This is the first time Ken has publicly shared the full story of how his journey with the Vineyard ended - not because he left, but because he was no longer welcome.

Ken Wilson is the founding pastor of Vineyard Ann Arbor and the author of A Letter to My Congregation, a landmark book in the conversation around faith and LGBTQ+ inclusion. Recently retired from the ministry, Ken continues to write, teach, and advocate for a more expansive and inclusive expression of Christian faith.

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In Part 2, JT Meyer recounts the aftermath of his decision to speak out. Despite his loyalty to the movement and attempts to engage in good-faith dialogue, JT was met with silence, isolation, and ultimately, exile from the Vineyard. He reflects on what he learned, the pastors who quietly supported him, and what a healthier, more just church could like.

This is a powerful look at the human cost of speaking the truth - and the hope that remains on the other side.

Content Warning: Includes themes of spiritual abuse, theological conflict, and pastoral isolation.

Resources: www.spoiledfruitpodcast.com

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In Part 1 of this two-part interview, former Vineyard pastor JT Meyer shares his journey into the Vineyard movement - from his early pastoral calling to his commitment to creating a more inclusive and honest spiritual community. JT walks us through the formative experiences that shaped his theology and pastoral style, and the growing tension he felt as he began advocating for LGBTQ+ inclusion within a system that demanded silence.

This is a story of integrity, isolation, and the cost of refusing to compromise your values.

Content Warning: This episode contains discussions about church exclusion, spiritual abuse, and LGBTQ+ marginalization.

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www.spoiledfruitpodcast.com

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In this emotional and unfiltered interview, we hear from Heidi Anderson and her children - former members of Mile High Vineyard, led by current Vineyard USA National Director Jay Pathak. When two of Heidi's children bravely came forward to report abuse, they went to one of the people they felt safest with: their youth group leader.

But that leader failed to immediately report. And instead of care or accountability, the church responded by protecting its own - funding legal support for the youth pastor and eventually removing the Anderson family from the community entirely.

This conversation is about what happens when institutional preservation is prioritized over pastoral responsibility - and what it costs the families left behind.

Content Warning: This episode contains discussions of sexual abuse, spiritual abuse, and institutional betrayal involving minors. Listener discretion is strongly advised.

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In this emotional and unfiltered interview, we hear from Heidi Anderson and her children - former members of Mile High Vineyard, led by current Vineyard USA National Director Jay Pathak. When two of Heidi's children bravely came forward to report abuse, they went to one of the people they felt safest with: their youth group leader.

But that leader failed to immediately report. And instead of care or accountability, the church responded by protecting its own - funding legal support for the youth pastor and eventually removing the Anderson family from the community entirely.

This conversation is about what happens when institutional preservation is prioritized over pastoral responsibility - and what it costs the families left behind.

Content Warning: This episode contains discussions of sexual abuse, spiritual abuse, and institutional betrayal involving minors. Listener discretion is strongly advised.

Resources & Links:

www.spoiledfruitpodcast.com

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In this powerful and eye-opening conversation, Dr. Paula Swindle helps us put words to the pain many have experienced but struggled to name. A scholar, psychologist, and trauma-informed spiritual care provider, Dr. Swindle brings deep insight into how religious systems - like Vineyard USA - can engage in spiritual bypass, silence dissent, and retraumatize survivors in the name of unity or divine authority.

We talk about how spiritual abuse often masquerades as "pastoral care," why some institutions confuse conflict avoidance with peacekeeping, and how survivors are often labeled as "gossips" or "divisive" simply for telling the truth.

If you've ever been made to feel like you're the problem for questioning abusive systems - this conversation is for you.

Guest Bio:

Paula Swindle is a licensed clinical mental health counselor/supervisor, an associate professor of counseling and the Hickory campus program coordinator for the counseling program.

Swindle’s more than 24 years of clinical work includes founding and providing counseling and consultation through the Center for Healing Religious Harm, youth and family therapy, private practice, inpatient and partial psychiatric services and designing and implementing mental health programs in medical settings such as cardiac rehabilitation, pulmonary rehabilitation and oncology services. She is passionate about interdisciplinary work in medical settings.

She serves as Vice President of the Catawba Valley Association of Counselors and Therapists and provides clinical supervision services for provisionally licensed counselors in North Carolina. Her research interests include counseling in medical settings and counseling and spirituality, particularly in religious abuse. She is also a co-host of the podcast “Sacred Intersections” with local pastor Reverend Jill Isola, which focuses on the intersection between religion and mental health, particularly in the area of religious trauma and spiritual abuse.

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In the season finale of Spoiled Fruit: Faith & Power, we examine the final stage of Vineyard USA's transformation from grassroots revival to centralized authority. This chapter traces how real crisis - like the abuse scandal in Duluth - were used to justify a long-planned internal reorganization, giving a small group of leaders near-total control of the movement.

We explore how spiritual bypassing, gaslighting, and vague accusations of "gossip" were used to silence dissenters. Through the insights of Dr. Paula Swindle and Pastor Doug Warburton, we define these patterns for what they are: psychological and spiritual manipulation.

We honor the survivors - especially those in Duluth - and remember the young woman who lost her life. Because this story is about more than bylaws and policy. It's about people.

We conclude with a call to Vineyard's largest churches. If even a few demand change, the future could look different. But with 90% of churches already signed onto the new structure, the silence is deafening. Is this the version of Vineyard you still want?

Content Warning: This episode discusses spiritual abuse, systemic retraumatization, and suicide. Listen discretion is advised.

Call to Action:

Share this episode.

Contact your local Vineyard pastor.

Demand Accountability.

Call local and national media and ask them to pick up this story.

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This is the full interview with Mandy Cavoto who, along with her husband Matt, were a part of the worship team at Mile High Vineyard in Denver, Colorado.

Many opens up about the spiritual abuse, the patterns of manipulation, and gaslighting she experienced there. She also reflects on her deep grief for the community she once loved, the cost of staying silent, and what healing has looked like in the aftermath. This conversation is raw, unflinching look at what happens when loyalty is weaponized and vulnerable staff members are left without protection or support.

Whether you've been following the story or are just tuning in, Mandy's story provides essential insight into the systemic failures explored throughout Spoiled Fruit.

Content Warning: This episode contains discussion of emotional, spiritual, and institutional abuse, as well as references to traumatic experiences within faith communities. Listener discretion is advised.

For resources go to www.spoiledfruitpodcast.com/resources

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In this extended interview, former Vineyard pastor Reagan Waggoner shares his deeply personal journey from trusted leader to outspoken critic of Vineyard USA's handling of spiritual abuse, institutional accountability, and the controversial ReOrg process.

Reagan candidly discusses:

• The troubling dynamics he observed in Vineyard's national leadership
• His direct challenges to Jay Pathak and the chilling response
• The emotional toll of being investigated for asking difficult questions
• Why transparency, repentance, and reform matter more than institutional perservation

This conversation pulls back the curtain on a movement in crisis - and a leader who chose truth over silence, even at great personal cost.

Content Warning: This episode contains discussion of spiritual abuse, institutional betrayal, and emotional distress. Listener discretion is advised.

Legal Disclaimer: The views expressed in this interview are those of the speaker and do not necessarily reflect the position of this podcast or its producers. All individuals mentioned are presumed innocent until proven otherwise in a court of law.

Resources Mentioned:

• Spoiled Fruit Website: www.spoiledfruitpodcast.com
• ReOrg Memo Analysis:
• Guidpost Report Summary:

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