While production continues on Season Two of Spoiled Fruit: Faith & Power — which takes a broader look at evangelical movements beyond the Vineyard — John shares a full, uncut conversation with Pastor Doug Warburton, his own pastor and a leader within the ELCA Lutheran Church.

In this episode, Pastor Doug offers valuable perspective from a tradition that’s been refining its systems of governance, accountability, and pastoral care for centuries. Together, John and Doug explore how institutional structure can be both protective and redemptive when it’s rooted in transparency, shared authority, and a deep respect for congregational voice.

Doug also helps frame what healthy oversight looks like in contrast to the failures uncovered throughout Spoiled Fruit: Faith & Power, showing how lessons learned from long-standing denominations might guide newer movements toward maturity and integrity.

Pastor Doug Warburton serves within the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA) and brings decades of experience in congregational leadership, pastoral care, and denominational governance. His insight offers a grounded, practical contrast to the free-church structures explored throughout Spoiled Fruit: Faith & Power, highlighting what institutional wisdom can offer to movements still finding their way.

About the Series

Spoiled Fruit: Faith & Power is an investigative series examining how good intentions within church movements can curdle into systems of power and silence. Season Two expands beyond the Vineyard to explore how these same dynamics appear across evangelicalism — and how faith communities can build healthier, more accountable futures.

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Stay connected for updates on Season Two:

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While Season Two of Spoiled Fruit: Faith & Power is in production, John shares one of his full, uncut interviews — this time with Pastor Brian Metzger, one of the most outspoken critics of Vineyard USA’s handling of cases like Duluth Vineyard.

In this candid and deeply personal conversation, Brian reflects on his years within the Vineyard Movement, what led him to speak out, and how his faith has evolved in the aftermath. Together, John and Brian discuss systemic leadership failures, accountability gaps, and the difficult balance between loyalty to a movement and loyalty to one’s convictions.

Brian’s courage and clarity have made him a respected voice among those calling for reform, and this interview provides essential context for understanding how Vineyard USA’s internal culture allowed harm to persist unchecked.

About the Guest

Pastor Brian Metzger is a former Vineyard pastor and one of the most vocal advocates for transparency, justice, and reform within the movement. His willingness to speak publicly about systemic failures — and to stand with survivors — has made him a key voice in the broader conversation about accountability within modern evangelicalism.

About the Series

Spoiled Fruit: Faith & Power investigates the rise, fall, and reckoning of the Vineyard Movement — and what its story reveals about evangelicalism as a whole. Season Two will expand the lens beyond the Vineyard, exploring how power, silence, and institutional loyalty shape movements across the broader church landscape.

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Stay connected for updates on Season Two:

• Website: spoiledfruitpodcast.com
• Instagram: @spoiledfruitpodcast
• X / Twitter: @spoiledfruitpod

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Episode Summary:

In this powerful and unfiltered conversation, former Vineyard pastor Melody Winderweedle shares her story of being quietly removed from leadership—not for misconduct, but for daring to lead with integrity, inclusion, and pastoral care. In the wake of a high-profile abuse scandal, Melody pushed for transparency, advocated for LGBTQ inclusion, and called out systems of control and exclusion. The response? Silence. Retaliation. And a door quietly closed behind her.

Her story is not unique—but it is rarely told so publicly. This interview is part of a continuing effort to surface the voices that churches like to bury.

We also contextualize this episode with recent developments at Duluth Vineyard—including internal concerns about new council appointments, allegations of spiritual coercion, power alignment, and a past relationship involving a minor. Despite public promises to be trauma-informed, the church’s actions suggest a troubling return to platforming loyalty over accountability.

Meanwhile, when asked for comment, Vineyard USA National Director Jay Pathak declined to respond—deferring instead to regional leaders. Once again, responsibility is passed down rather than taken up.

This is the first of two new interviews in this mini-series. The voices may have been pushed to the margins—but they are speaking louder than ever.

Guest Bio:

Melody Winderweedle is a current pastor and former Vineyard pastor. Known for her compassion, integrity, and spiritual leadership, Melody served faithfully until she was removed for supporting LGBTQ inclusion and speaking up about systemic issues within the church. She continues to advocate for safer, healthier expressions of Christian community.

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Thank you to everyone who submitted questions! If you have additional questions not answered in this episode please send them to [email protected] or via our contact form on www.spoiledfruitpod.com

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In this full-length interview, Spoiled Fruit sits down with Ken Wilson, founding pastor of Vineyard Church of Ann Arbor and one of the movement's earliest and most respected leaders.

For decades, Ken was known as a thoughtful, compassionate voice within the Vineyard - until he did something few pastors dared to do: publicly express support for LGBTQ+ inclusion. Despite years of faithful service, Ken was quietly pushed out, his legacy downplayed, and the church he founded taken over by those unwilling to even speak his name.

This is the first time Ken has publicly shared the full story of how his journey with the Vineyard ended - not because he left, but because he was no longer welcome.

Ken Wilson is the founding pastor of Vineyard Ann Arbor and the author of A Letter to My Congregation, a landmark book in the conversation around faith and LGBTQ+ inclusion. Recently retired from the ministry, Ken continues to write, teach, and advocate for a more expansive and inclusive expression of Christian faith.

Resources & Links:

www.spoiledfruitpodcast.com

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In Part 2, JT Meyer recounts the aftermath of his decision to speak out. Despite his loyalty to the movement and attempts to engage in good-faith dialogue, JT was met with silence, isolation, and ultimately, exile from the Vineyard. He reflects on what he learned, the pastors who quietly supported him, and what a healthier, more just church could like.

This is a powerful look at the human cost of speaking the truth - and the hope that remains on the other side.

Content Warning: Includes themes of spiritual abuse, theological conflict, and pastoral isolation.

Resources: www.spoiledfruitpodcast.com

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In Part 1 of this two-part interview, former Vineyard pastor JT Meyer shares his journey into the Vineyard movement - from his early pastoral calling to his commitment to creating a more inclusive and honest spiritual community. JT walks us through the formative experiences that shaped his theology and pastoral style, and the growing tension he felt as he began advocating for LGBTQ+ inclusion within a system that demanded silence.

This is a story of integrity, isolation, and the cost of refusing to compromise your values.

Content Warning: This episode contains discussions about church exclusion, spiritual abuse, and LGBTQ+ marginalization.

Resources & Links:

www.spoiledfruitpodcast.com

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In this emotional and unfiltered interview, we hear from Heidi Anderson and her children - former members of Mile High Vineyard, led by current Vineyard USA National Director Jay Pathak. When two of Heidi's children bravely came forward to report abuse, they went to one of the people they felt safest with: their youth group leader.

But that leader failed to immediately report. And instead of care or accountability, the church responded by protecting its own - funding legal support for the youth pastor and eventually removing the Anderson family from the community entirely.

This conversation is about what happens when institutional preservation is prioritized over pastoral responsibility - and what it costs the families left behind.

Content Warning: This episode contains discussions of sexual abuse, spiritual abuse, and institutional betrayal involving minors. Listener discretion is strongly advised.

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www.spoiledfruitpodcast.com

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In this powerful and eye-opening conversation, Dr. Paula Swindle helps us put words to the pain many have experienced but struggled to name. A scholar, psychologist, and trauma-informed spiritual care provider, Dr. Swindle brings deep insight into how religious systems - like Vineyard USA - can engage in spiritual bypass, silence dissent, and retraumatize survivors in the name of unity or divine authority.

We talk about how spiritual abuse often masquerades as "pastoral care," why some institutions confuse conflict avoidance with peacekeeping, and how survivors are often labeled as "gossips" or "divisive" simply for telling the truth.

If you've ever been made to feel like you're the problem for questioning abusive systems - this conversation is for you.

Guest Bio:

Paula Swindle is a licensed clinical mental health counselor/supervisor, an associate professor of counseling and the Hickory campus program coordinator for the counseling program.

Swindle’s more than 24 years of clinical work includes founding and providing counseling and consultation through the Center for Healing Religious Harm, youth and family therapy, private practice, inpatient and partial psychiatric services and designing and implementing mental health programs in medical settings such as cardiac rehabilitation, pulmonary rehabilitation and oncology services. She is passionate about interdisciplinary work in medical settings.

She serves as Vice President of the Catawba Valley Association of Counselors and Therapists and provides clinical supervision services for provisionally licensed counselors in North Carolina. Her research interests include counseling in medical settings and counseling and spirituality, particularly in religious abuse. She is also a co-host of the podcast “Sacred Intersections” with local pastor Reverend Jill Isola, which focuses on the intersection between religion and mental health, particularly in the area of religious trauma and spiritual abuse.

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In the season finale of Spoiled Fruit: Faith & Power, we examine the final stage of Vineyard USA's transformation from grassroots revival to centralized authority. This chapter traces how real crisis - like the abuse scandal in Duluth - were used to justify a long-planned internal reorganization, giving a small group of leaders near-total control of the movement.

We explore how spiritual bypassing, gaslighting, and vague accusations of "gossip" were used to silence dissenters. Through the insights of Dr. Paula Swindle and Pastor Doug Warburton, we define these patterns for what they are: psychological and spiritual manipulation.

We honor the survivors - especially those in Duluth - and remember the young woman who lost her life. Because this story is about more than bylaws and policy. It's about people.

We conclude with a call to Vineyard's largest churches. If even a few demand change, the future could look different. But with 90% of churches already signed onto the new structure, the silence is deafening. Is this the version of Vineyard you still want?

Content Warning: This episode discusses spiritual abuse, systemic retraumatization, and suicide. Listen discretion is advised.

Call to Action:

Share this episode.

Contact your local Vineyard pastor.

Demand Accountability.

Call local and national media and ask them to pick up this story.

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