In this conversation, Chris and Saad discuss the concept of scaling product teams and the importance of building a shipyard rather than just focusing on building a ship. They explore the challenges and strategies involved in upscaling teams, including hiring, onboarding, and managing dependencies. They also touch on the role of learning and development in upskilling team members and the importance of communication and collaboration throughout the scaling process. In this conversation, Chris and Saad discuss various aspects of building and scaling teams. They explore what makes a good manager for scaling a team, the challenges of building and structuring a team, starting a new division in a startup, onboarding new team members, defining the problem and solution, building something that does not scale, and the importance of healthy conflict in decision making.