In this podcast Patrick Gray talks to Tom Uren about investigations into the disinformation industry. One election interference for hire company, known as “Team Jorge”, provides a huge variety of dirty tricks services, but we think its claims of massive influence are overblown. Despite that, however, these companies are still corrosive for democracy and a scourge worth tackling. Patrick thinks they’re the “new internet villain” and will replace NSO as a target of hate.

They also discuss Google’s new report that covers Russian cyber operations in its invasion of Ukraine. On the whole a good report, but both Tom and Pat think some of it is problematic.

Finally, they talk about Patrick’s interview with the head of the CIA’s Center for Cyber Intelligence. It’s great to have intelligence officials explain how they see the cyber threat landscape and get their take on war in Ukraine and what that means for cyber operations in future conflicts.