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Strategic Disorder: How Emotion, Power, and Policy Collide in Modern America
This discussion, led by Rock of Talk host Eddy Aragon, dissects the political, social, and financial turbulence in America through a military-strategic framework: Ends = Ways × Means. The conversation begins locally, with Bernalillo County Commissioner Walt Benson recounting his lone dissenting vote against a symbolic “safe spaces” ordinance. He describes the measure as political theatre designed to oppose ICE despite being legally meaningless under federal immigration law. Benson also details the intimidation tactics used by activists, illustrating how emotional advocacy is increasingly replacing rational analysis in politics.
Strategic analyst Greg Zanetti widens the lens, arguing that both local activism and significant national policies—such as US involvement in Ukraine—suffer from the same flaw: a lack of clear objectives, resources, and coherent execution. He contrasts genuine strategic planning with the modern trend of emotionally-driven advocacy, fuelled by propaganda-oriented media ecosystems that divide society into tribal factions. According to Zanetti, this fracturing is not accidental but part of a long-term effort by a powerful internal faction to destabilise the United States by eroding trust in institutions.
The discussion culminates in a theory that America is undergoing a deliberate “national bankruptcy workout” meant to save the government but harm the average citizen. This includes renegotiating contracts through tariffs, devaluing the currency to induce inflation, and revaluing national assets. Zanetti predicts the government will intervene to protect the stock market by treating it as a national security asset, propping it up even as citizens’ purchasing power collapses. Eddy and Zanetti argue that illegal immigration, political corruption, and economic distortion are interconnected symptoms of a society governed by emotion rather than disciplined, objective analysis—and that preparing for the coming financial and social “dip” is essential.
OUTLINE OR TLDR OR LISTEN
The discussion analyzes political and social issues through a military strategy framework (Ends = Ways x Means), critiquing the lack of clear objectives in US foreign policy (like Ukraine), local politics, and modern protest movements. County Commissioner Walt Benson recounts his opposition to a symbolic “safe spaces” ordinance in Bernalillo County, highlighting political theater and intimidation tactics. The conversation expands to a broader critique of modern society, arguing that a shift from objective analysis to emotional advocacy, fueled by propaganda-driven media, is causing societal division. This division is framed as a deliberate, long-term strategy by a powerful internal group to destabilize the US. This group’s plan allegedly involves a “bankruptcy workout” for the nation’s massive debt, which includes devaluing the currency (causing inflation) and propping up the stock market, ultimately saving the government at the expense of the average citizen.
Introduction
* Eddy Aragon: The host of “The Rock of Talk” on AM1600, who facilitates the discussion. He introduces the guests and topics and actively participates by offering his own perspectives on immigration, political intimidation, and the responsibilities of citizens and businesses in their hiring practices. He also expresses frustration with political corruption and advocates for a “technocracy” where data and AI, rather than emotion, guide governance.
* Walt Benson: Bernalillo County Commissioner for District 4. He details his experience being the sole dissenting vote against a “safe spaces” ordinance aimed at protecting illegal immigrants from ICE. He argues that the ordinance is purely theatrical, that federal law supersedes it, and that it serves only as a political distraction. He also recounts the intimidation and threats he faced from activists at the meeting.
* Greg Zanetti: A financial advisor at Zanetti Financial and a strategic analyst on the show. He provides a strategic framework for analyzing political and military situations, defining strategy as “Ends = Ways x Means.” He critiques the lack of clear objectives in US policy towards Ukraine, local political efforts, and modern protest movements. He theorizes that a powerful internal faction is intentionally destabilizing the US by destroying trust in institutions and executing a national “bankruptcy workout” to manage debt, a plan he believes President Trump is complicit in.
Key Points
* Symbolic Politics & Intimidation: A “safe spaces” ordinance passed in Bernalillo County is mainly symbolic and legally unenforceable, as federal immigration law supersedes it. The political climate surrounding the issue has become highly confrontational, with activists using intimidation against opposing viewpoints, as experienced by Commissioner Walt Benson.
* Strategic Incompetence: Effective strategy (in politics, business, or military action) requires a clear objective (Ends), adequate resources (Means), and a viable plan (Ways). Many modern political movements (e.g., “No Kings,” Gaza protests) and major government policies (e.g., the war in Ukraine) lack this clear strategic framework, rendering them ineffective.
* Analysis vs. Advocacy: Society has shifted mainly from “analysis” (seeking objective truth) to “advocacy” (pushing an agenda). This is driven by emotion-based, team-oriented media that fractures society, prevents consensus, and leads to poor decision-making.
* Deliberate Destabilization: A theory is presented that a powerful, unseen group is intentionally executing a long-term strategy to destabilize the US. This involves fostering division, destroying trust in all major institutions (justice, media, military), and making the country weaker and easier to control.
* National “Bankruptcy Workout”: The soaring national debt is allegedly being managed through a three-step “bankruptcy workout” strategy: renegotiating contracts (tariffs), devaluing the currency (causing inflation), and revaluing national assets. This plan is designed to save the government from its debt crisis at the expense of the average citizen.
* Government Market Intervention: The government may intervene to prevent a stock market crash by designating a stock as a “national security asset” and buying it. This would prop up the market and keep the government in power, but citizens’ real wealth would be devalued through inflation.
* Complexity of Illegal Immigration: The issue of illegal immigration is complex, involving not just border security but also the domestic demand for undocumented labor, including by those who publicly oppose it.
Insights
* Eddy Aragon
* Believes citizens and businesses, particularly conservatives, have a responsibility not to hire undocumented workers, as this provides the economic incentive for illegal immigration.
* Suggests that the threat of violence is a form of violence itself, as it is designed to intimidate and change behavior.
* Views the media landscape as entirely propaganda, with different channels simply pushing predictable agendas.
* Advocates for a “technocracy,” where unemotional, data-driven analysis by AI could solve complex problems more effectively than politicians driven by emotion and self-interest.
* Questions the logic of inflationary policies like the 50-year mortgage and tariff rebates, seeing them as moves to win votes rather than solve economic problems.
* Walt Benson
* The “safe spaces” ordinance in Bernalillo County is deceptive political theater designed to oppose ICE and support a sanctuary county agenda.
* The ordinance is legally meaningless because federal law trumps local law, meaning ICE is not bound by it.
* The debate was dominated by organized activists who resorted to intimidation, creating a hostile environment for anyone with an opposing view.
* He believes the focus on such symbolic issues distracts the county commission from addressing actual problems and fulfilling its duties.
* Greg Zanetti
* Defines strategy with the formula: Ends (objective) = Ways (tactics) x Means (resources). A plan without all three components is not a strategy.
* Criticizes the US approach to the war in Ukraine and many protest movements for lacking a clearly articulated objective, making them strategically incoherent.
* The failure of some protest movements might be a deliberate “disinformation” strategy by an opposing force to muddle the message and prevent effective opposition.
* The media is dominated by “advocacy,” which stirs emotions and prevents people from finding the objective truth; truth is better found by observing insiders’ actions (e.g., selling stock) rather than their public statements.
* Theorizes that a powerful group’s objective is to take the country down by destroying trust in all institutions. This “long march” has been in progress for decades.
* Outlines a three-step “bankruptcy workout” for the nation’s debt: renegotiating contracts (tariffs), devaluing the currency (inflation), and revaluing assets (federal land, gold). He believes the government will sacrifice the dollar to save the system.
Chapters
* The “Safe Spaces” Ordinance in Bernalillo County
* Walt Benson describes a county commission vote to create “safe spaces,” which he calls a deceptive measure to protect illegal immigrants from ICE as part of a sanctuary policy. The meeting was filled with hostile, organized activists. He was the sole dissenting vote among the commissioners.
* Benson argues the ordinance is “optics and theatrics” because federal law supersedes local law, making it a waste of taxpayer money. He notes the irony of being called a racist while quoting Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton on border security.
* Intimidation and Political Threats
* Benson recounts being told of “mumblings about threats and causing harm” after the meeting, requiring a sheriff’s deputy to escort him to his car. He vows not to be intimidated and to “double down.”
* The ordinance requires businesses in unincorporated areas to post signs and notify employees of ICE audits, but Benson notes there is no legal way to force compliance. He sees the entire event as a distraction from the commission’s real duties.
* The Nature of Immigration and Enforcement
* Eddy Aragon likens the activists’ threats to violence itself, as it’s meant to change behavior. He argues that giving immigrants advance notice of raids causes them to “dig in” rather than leave.
* Benson shares an anecdote about a taco shop owner who benefits from federal protections (like the FDIC) but complains about federal immigration enforcement, arguing that all laws should be enforced.
* Aragon asserts that conservatives who hire undocumented labor betray their own values and create the economic demand that fuels illegal immigration.
* A Strategic Framework: Ends, Ways, and Means
* Greg Zanetti introduces a military definition of strategy: Ends = Ways x Means. “Ends” are the objective, “Means” are resources, and “Ways” are the tactics to use those resources to achieve the objective.
* He critiques a local Republican group wanting to implement right-to-life classes, noting they have an objective but no resources (Means) or plan (Ways), and thus no strategy.
* He applies this to the war in Ukraine, arguing that neither the Trump nor the Biden administration has articulated a clear objective (Ends), so the US is sending resources without a coherent strategy.
* Strategic Analysis of Modern Protest Movements
* Zanetti analyzes the “No Kings” anti-Trump movement, noting its objective was perhaps to humiliate Trump, but its tactic (the slogan “No Kings”) was weak and anachronistic. The movement ultimately fell flat and was forgotten.
* He applies the same lens to the Gaza protests, arguing a simple slogan like “Stop the killing” would be more effective than divisive ones like “From the river to the sea,” which muddle the message.
* He questions if the strategic incompetence of these movements is intentional—a form of “disinformation campaign” designed to sabotage them and make them look foolish preemptively.
* Advocacy vs. Analysis and the Rise of Tribalism
* Zanetti distinguishes between “analysis” (seeking truth) and “advocacy” (pushing an agenda), stating that most media (Fox News, MSNBC) are in the advocacy business. Advocacy stirs emotion and appeals to a “team,” fracturing society into smaller, competing groups while the objective truth is lost.
* Aragon agrees, noting the fracturing on the right and citing the near-unanimous vote on the Epstein files as evidence of people abandoning truth for political expediency. He proposes a “technocracy” where unemotional AI and data analysis could solve problems more effectively than politicians.
* The Strategy to Take Down the United States
* Zanetti theorizes there is a group above the political “opportunists” executing a long-term strategy to take down the US. The method is to destroy trust in all major institutions: education, justice, the military, the media, etc. When no one knows what truth is, society cannot unite and begins to crumble.
* He contrasts this with Russia, which he analyzes as completely united and pursuing a clear strategy, believing it is in an existential fight against the West.
* The National “Bankruptcy Workout” Plan
* Aragon questions the logic of proposed policies like a 50-year mortgage and tariff rebates, calling them inflationary vote-getters.
* Zanetti explains these are part of a deliberate three-step “bankruptcy workout” to handle the nation’s $40 trillion debt:
* Renegotiate Contracts: Achieved through tariffs.
* Devalue the Currency: Print money and lower interest rates, knowingly causing future inflation.
* Revalue Assets: Utilize federal lands and natural resources, possibly through a sovereign wealth fund.
* He concludes that this plan allows the government to escape its debt, but the people suffer the consequences. The architects care about saving the system, not the populace.
* Future Financial Predictions and Market Intervention
* Zanetti predicts the government will not allow the stock market to crash. They will declare it a “national security asset” and use the Treasury and Fed to buy stocks, propping up the market as Japan has done.
* This keeps the government in power but hurts citizens, who will face a situation in which the market rises 5% while inflation is 15%. The system will be saved at the expense of the dollar.
* Both agree that financial fatigue leads people to make poor decisions and that hope is not a strategy. They stress the need for action and preparation for an inevitable economic “dip.”
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit rockoftalk.substack.com
View all episodes
By The Rock of TalkThis discussion, led by Rock of Talk host Eddy Aragon, dissects the political, social, and financial turbulence in America through a military-strategic framework: Ends = Ways × Means. The conversation begins locally, with Bernalillo County Commissioner Walt Benson recounting his lone dissenting vote against a symbolic “safe spaces” ordinance. He describes the measure as political theatre designed to oppose ICE despite being legally meaningless under federal immigration law. Benson also details the intimidation tactics used by activists, illustrating how emotional advocacy is increasingly replacing rational analysis in politics.
Strategic analyst Greg Zanetti widens the lens, arguing that both local activism and significant national policies—such as US involvement in Ukraine—suffer from the same flaw: a lack of clear objectives, resources, and coherent execution. He contrasts genuine strategic planning with the modern trend of emotionally-driven advocacy, fuelled by propaganda-oriented media ecosystems that divide society into tribal factions. According to Zanetti, this fracturing is not accidental but part of a long-term effort by a powerful internal faction to destabilise the United States by eroding trust in institutions.
The discussion culminates in a theory that America is undergoing a deliberate “national bankruptcy workout” meant to save the government but harm the average citizen. This includes renegotiating contracts through tariffs, devaluing the currency to induce inflation, and revaluing national assets. Zanetti predicts the government will intervene to protect the stock market by treating it as a national security asset, propping it up even as citizens’ purchasing power collapses. Eddy and Zanetti argue that illegal immigration, political corruption, and economic distortion are interconnected symptoms of a society governed by emotion rather than disciplined, objective analysis—and that preparing for the coming financial and social “dip” is essential.
OUTLINE OR TLDR OR LISTEN
The discussion analyzes political and social issues through a military strategy framework (Ends = Ways x Means), critiquing the lack of clear objectives in US foreign policy (like Ukraine), local politics, and modern protest movements. County Commissioner Walt Benson recounts his opposition to a symbolic “safe spaces” ordinance in Bernalillo County, highlighting political theater and intimidation tactics. The conversation expands to a broader critique of modern society, arguing that a shift from objective analysis to emotional advocacy, fueled by propaganda-driven media, is causing societal division. This division is framed as a deliberate, long-term strategy by a powerful internal group to destabilize the US. This group’s plan allegedly involves a “bankruptcy workout” for the nation’s massive debt, which includes devaluing the currency (causing inflation) and propping up the stock market, ultimately saving the government at the expense of the average citizen.
Introduction
* Eddy Aragon: The host of “The Rock of Talk” on AM1600, who facilitates the discussion. He introduces the guests and topics and actively participates by offering his own perspectives on immigration, political intimidation, and the responsibilities of citizens and businesses in their hiring practices. He also expresses frustration with political corruption and advocates for a “technocracy” where data and AI, rather than emotion, guide governance.
* Walt Benson: Bernalillo County Commissioner for District 4. He details his experience being the sole dissenting vote against a “safe spaces” ordinance aimed at protecting illegal immigrants from ICE. He argues that the ordinance is purely theatrical, that federal law supersedes it, and that it serves only as a political distraction. He also recounts the intimidation and threats he faced from activists at the meeting.
* Greg Zanetti: A financial advisor at Zanetti Financial and a strategic analyst on the show. He provides a strategic framework for analyzing political and military situations, defining strategy as “Ends = Ways x Means.” He critiques the lack of clear objectives in US policy towards Ukraine, local political efforts, and modern protest movements. He theorizes that a powerful internal faction is intentionally destabilizing the US by destroying trust in institutions and executing a national “bankruptcy workout” to manage debt, a plan he believes President Trump is complicit in.
Key Points
* Symbolic Politics & Intimidation: A “safe spaces” ordinance passed in Bernalillo County is mainly symbolic and legally unenforceable, as federal immigration law supersedes it. The political climate surrounding the issue has become highly confrontational, with activists using intimidation against opposing viewpoints, as experienced by Commissioner Walt Benson.
* Strategic Incompetence: Effective strategy (in politics, business, or military action) requires a clear objective (Ends), adequate resources (Means), and a viable plan (Ways). Many modern political movements (e.g., “No Kings,” Gaza protests) and major government policies (e.g., the war in Ukraine) lack this clear strategic framework, rendering them ineffective.
* Analysis vs. Advocacy: Society has shifted mainly from “analysis” (seeking objective truth) to “advocacy” (pushing an agenda). This is driven by emotion-based, team-oriented media that fractures society, prevents consensus, and leads to poor decision-making.
* Deliberate Destabilization: A theory is presented that a powerful, unseen group is intentionally executing a long-term strategy to destabilize the US. This involves fostering division, destroying trust in all major institutions (justice, media, military), and making the country weaker and easier to control.
* National “Bankruptcy Workout”: The soaring national debt is allegedly being managed through a three-step “bankruptcy workout” strategy: renegotiating contracts (tariffs), devaluing the currency (causing inflation), and revaluing national assets. This plan is designed to save the government from its debt crisis at the expense of the average citizen.
* Government Market Intervention: The government may intervene to prevent a stock market crash by designating a stock as a “national security asset” and buying it. This would prop up the market and keep the government in power, but citizens’ real wealth would be devalued through inflation.
* Complexity of Illegal Immigration: The issue of illegal immigration is complex, involving not just border security but also the domestic demand for undocumented labor, including by those who publicly oppose it.
Insights
* Eddy Aragon
* Believes citizens and businesses, particularly conservatives, have a responsibility not to hire undocumented workers, as this provides the economic incentive for illegal immigration.
* Suggests that the threat of violence is a form of violence itself, as it is designed to intimidate and change behavior.
* Views the media landscape as entirely propaganda, with different channels simply pushing predictable agendas.
* Advocates for a “technocracy,” where unemotional, data-driven analysis by AI could solve complex problems more effectively than politicians driven by emotion and self-interest.
* Questions the logic of inflationary policies like the 50-year mortgage and tariff rebates, seeing them as moves to win votes rather than solve economic problems.
* Walt Benson
* The “safe spaces” ordinance in Bernalillo County is deceptive political theater designed to oppose ICE and support a sanctuary county agenda.
* The ordinance is legally meaningless because federal law trumps local law, meaning ICE is not bound by it.
* The debate was dominated by organized activists who resorted to intimidation, creating a hostile environment for anyone with an opposing view.
* He believes the focus on such symbolic issues distracts the county commission from addressing actual problems and fulfilling its duties.
* Greg Zanetti
* Defines strategy with the formula: Ends (objective) = Ways (tactics) x Means (resources). A plan without all three components is not a strategy.
* Criticizes the US approach to the war in Ukraine and many protest movements for lacking a clearly articulated objective, making them strategically incoherent.
* The failure of some protest movements might be a deliberate “disinformation” strategy by an opposing force to muddle the message and prevent effective opposition.
* The media is dominated by “advocacy,” which stirs emotions and prevents people from finding the objective truth; truth is better found by observing insiders’ actions (e.g., selling stock) rather than their public statements.
* Theorizes that a powerful group’s objective is to take the country down by destroying trust in all institutions. This “long march” has been in progress for decades.
* Outlines a three-step “bankruptcy workout” for the nation’s debt: renegotiating contracts (tariffs), devaluing the currency (inflation), and revaluing assets (federal land, gold). He believes the government will sacrifice the dollar to save the system.
Chapters
* The “Safe Spaces” Ordinance in Bernalillo County
* Walt Benson describes a county commission vote to create “safe spaces,” which he calls a deceptive measure to protect illegal immigrants from ICE as part of a sanctuary policy. The meeting was filled with hostile, organized activists. He was the sole dissenting vote among the commissioners.
* Benson argues the ordinance is “optics and theatrics” because federal law supersedes local law, making it a waste of taxpayer money. He notes the irony of being called a racist while quoting Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton on border security.
* Intimidation and Political Threats
* Benson recounts being told of “mumblings about threats and causing harm” after the meeting, requiring a sheriff’s deputy to escort him to his car. He vows not to be intimidated and to “double down.”
* The ordinance requires businesses in unincorporated areas to post signs and notify employees of ICE audits, but Benson notes there is no legal way to force compliance. He sees the entire event as a distraction from the commission’s real duties.
* The Nature of Immigration and Enforcement
* Eddy Aragon likens the activists’ threats to violence itself, as it’s meant to change behavior. He argues that giving immigrants advance notice of raids causes them to “dig in” rather than leave.
* Benson shares an anecdote about a taco shop owner who benefits from federal protections (like the FDIC) but complains about federal immigration enforcement, arguing that all laws should be enforced.
* Aragon asserts that conservatives who hire undocumented labor betray their own values and create the economic demand that fuels illegal immigration.
* A Strategic Framework: Ends, Ways, and Means
* Greg Zanetti introduces a military definition of strategy: Ends = Ways x Means. “Ends” are the objective, “Means” are resources, and “Ways” are the tactics to use those resources to achieve the objective.
* He critiques a local Republican group wanting to implement right-to-life classes, noting they have an objective but no resources (Means) or plan (Ways), and thus no strategy.
* He applies this to the war in Ukraine, arguing that neither the Trump nor the Biden administration has articulated a clear objective (Ends), so the US is sending resources without a coherent strategy.
* Strategic Analysis of Modern Protest Movements
* Zanetti analyzes the “No Kings” anti-Trump movement, noting its objective was perhaps to humiliate Trump, but its tactic (the slogan “No Kings”) was weak and anachronistic. The movement ultimately fell flat and was forgotten.
* He applies the same lens to the Gaza protests, arguing a simple slogan like “Stop the killing” would be more effective than divisive ones like “From the river to the sea,” which muddle the message.
* He questions if the strategic incompetence of these movements is intentional—a form of “disinformation campaign” designed to sabotage them and make them look foolish preemptively.
* Advocacy vs. Analysis and the Rise of Tribalism
* Zanetti distinguishes between “analysis” (seeking truth) and “advocacy” (pushing an agenda), stating that most media (Fox News, MSNBC) are in the advocacy business. Advocacy stirs emotion and appeals to a “team,” fracturing society into smaller, competing groups while the objective truth is lost.
* Aragon agrees, noting the fracturing on the right and citing the near-unanimous vote on the Epstein files as evidence of people abandoning truth for political expediency. He proposes a “technocracy” where unemotional AI and data analysis could solve problems more effectively than politicians.
* The Strategy to Take Down the United States
* Zanetti theorizes there is a group above the political “opportunists” executing a long-term strategy to take down the US. The method is to destroy trust in all major institutions: education, justice, the military, the media, etc. When no one knows what truth is, society cannot unite and begins to crumble.
* He contrasts this with Russia, which he analyzes as completely united and pursuing a clear strategy, believing it is in an existential fight against the West.
* The National “Bankruptcy Workout” Plan
* Aragon questions the logic of proposed policies like a 50-year mortgage and tariff rebates, calling them inflationary vote-getters.
* Zanetti explains these are part of a deliberate three-step “bankruptcy workout” to handle the nation’s $40 trillion debt:
* Renegotiate Contracts: Achieved through tariffs.
* Devalue the Currency: Print money and lower interest rates, knowingly causing future inflation.
* Revalue Assets: Utilize federal lands and natural resources, possibly through a sovereign wealth fund.
* He concludes that this plan allows the government to escape its debt, but the people suffer the consequences. The architects care about saving the system, not the populace.
* Future Financial Predictions and Market Intervention
* Zanetti predicts the government will not allow the stock market to crash. They will declare it a “national security asset” and use the Treasury and Fed to buy stocks, propping up the market as Japan has done.
* This keeps the government in power but hurts citizens, who will face a situation in which the market rises 5% while inflation is 15%. The system will be saved at the expense of the dollar.
* Both agree that financial fatigue leads people to make poor decisions and that hope is not a strategy. They stress the need for action and preparation for an inevitable economic “dip.”
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit rockoftalk.substack.com