Welcome back to Analyze Scripts, where a psychiatrist and a therapist analyze what Hollywood gets right and wrong about mental health. Today, we're diving in to season 2 of "Succession" on HBOMax. In this episode, we explain the core features of narcissistic personality disorder and discuss how these traits show up in different ways in each of the main characters. We also use the main characters to compare and contrast overt vs covert narcissism, and explore the connection between narcissistic traits and early childhood trauma (particularly abuse and neglect). We hope you enjoy!

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[00:10] Dr. Katrina Furey: Hi, I'm Dr. Katrina Fury, a psychiatrist.

[00:12] Portia Pendleton: And I'm Portia Pendleton, a licensed clinical social worker.

[00:16] Dr. Katrina Furey: And this is Analyze Scripts, a podcast where two shrinks analyze the depiction of mental health in movies and TV shows.

[00:23] Portia Pendleton: Our hope is that you learn some legit info about mental health while feeling like you're chatting with your girlfriends.

[00:28] Dr. Katrina Furey: There is so much misinformation out there, and it drives us nuts.

[00:32] Portia Pendleton: And if someday we pay off our student loans or land a sponsorship, like.

[00:36] Dr. Katrina Furey: With a lay flat airline or a major beauty brand, even better.

[00:39] Portia Pendleton: So sit back, relax, grab some popcorn.

[00:42] Dr. Katrina Furey: And your DSM Five and enjoy.

[00:55] Portia Pendleton: So here we are today kind of talking about succession season two, and I have a million words, and none like, I yes, very, you know, we we had to kind of meet and break down.

[01:05] Dr. Katrina Furey: You know what's interesting? That's very black or white, all or nothing. And a lot of what we're going to be talking about today is narcissistic personality disorder, borderline personality disorder. That's how people with these traits tend to feel things and see things. Just as I'm analyzing us analyzing this show, I just want to point that out.

[01:24] Portia Pendleton: Yeah. I think the most helpful way that we kind of tried to think about.

[01:29] Dr. Katrina Furey: How to talk about all of the.

[01:31] Portia Pendleton: Things that happened in season two is, like, kind of sticking to some bigger themes.

[01:35] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right.

[01:35] Portia Pendleton: So we're assuming that if you are listening to this episode, you've watched the season, so you don't need a recap. You don't need to know our thoughts on financial information. That is not our specialty.

[01:45] Dr. Katrina Furey: I don't really have a lot of thoughts. I'm still trying to figure out what is a shareholder and why do they fly to all their private islands? But we're not going to figure that part out.

[01:56] Portia Pendleton: Right.

[01:56] Dr. Katrina Furey: So just to give a quick recap in season two, it opens with Kendall and some fancy pants hot tub, which we're assuming is like some kind of rehab, right? Yes. So his dad offered to kind of COVID up the deaths at the end of season one and return for Kendall sort of backing off the hospital takeover publicly. And he says, I'll cover your rehab. Like, go and get well. And then, oh, just kidding.

[02:22] Portia Pendleton: I need you to come 48 hours.

[02:24] Dr. Katrina Furey: Later to a press conference and sort of tell everyone that you made a mistake. And actually, I am all good. Right. And then the way the rest of the season kind of unfolds is Kendall's arc with addiction, and we'll get into that a little bit more as well as the waste star, Royco tries to sort of make a deal with Pierce Global Media because they have that huge billion zillion dollar debt. And then the scandals at the cruise line come out, and we see them sort of facing a reckoning.

[02:55] Portia Pendleton: So we thought it was helpful to kind of just think about Logan, and we were kind of commenting on why didn't we talk about him as much in season one? We spent a lot more time just talking about the kids chicken, I mean, I think makes sense. But Logan we see in this season, just like he makes me feel a lot of different feelings.

[03:15] Dr. Katrina Furey: I have a hard time watching him. A lot of the times I think Brian *** is a really wonderful actor, but I kept being worried about Brian *** acting in this role and wondering, is he okay? Because he's having to do some really awful things, like physically hurt people, get one over on people. He screams all the time. That just must be a hard set.

[03:41] Portia Pendleton: To be I'm just thinking of his internal, I guess, brian and Logan, the character, like, how high is his cortisol level? Right? He's constantly screaming. Screaming and stressed. And it's so intense. And every decision he makes is worth probably bazillions dollars. It's very stressful.

[04:00] Dr. Katrina Furey: Very stressful. And so I always wonder about this in Hollywood on sets and stuff like this. Do they have massage therapists on staff? Or, like, a quiet room you can go to to decompress or, like, therapists on set to just be like, how does that feel for you? That was a really tough scene and yeah, I'm just always curious about that.

[04:20] Portia Pendleton: I imagine they must you think? I think so.

[04:23] Dr. Katrina Furey: I feel like that's a better use of money than craft services. All the food.

[04:28] Portia Pendleton: Yeah.

[04:29] Dr. Katrina Furey: Sorry, I interrupted you.

[04:31] Portia Pendleton: No, I think I've heard somewhere about some show or movie that was pretty disturbing and maybe it was even, like, something more along the lines of, like, a sexual assault. And there were therapists on there to kind of pull people out and be like, how are you feeling right now? And ground them in the present that this isn't really happening. Right. Because I think I never thought about that until this podcast of just, like, the really intense scenes for actors and how they manage to cope with them.

[05:00] Dr. Katrina Furey: And even I'm thinking the writers, like, someone, if not all of the writers, have got to have a parent like this or something to get it so right. Get it so right. The dynamics and the ickiness and someone's got to have some sort of personal connection there because it is just so right. And the way that we see the relationship between Logan and his children and the relationship amongst the children sort of evolve and develop over time is so nuanced, but spot on.

[05:31] Portia Pendleton: Yeah.

[05:32] Dr. Katrina Furey: And I wonder if that has contributed to why this show is so wildly successful. Again, because it's not a lot to look at. It's a lot of white men in suits.

[05:42] Portia Pendleton: It's a lot of just, like, jargon that I think most people are super familiar with every single thing that they're saying.

[05:48] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right, exactly. And so I think it is successful because of those dynamics and the emotions. The characters are portraying. And as well, I think, stirring up in the viewer. Yeah.

[06:03] Portia Pendleton: So one thing that we did not talk about, which both of us now are analyzing of ourselves, is seeing Logan in the pool in season one with pretty significant scarring on his back.

[06:13] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah, I know. I thought that was fascinating. As we were preparing for this episode, we were like, okay, let's jot down some thoughts. And that turns out to be like five pages of thoughts because it is a lot to keep track and we really want to focus on our take rather than sort of a recap of the season. And I just thought it was interesting that neither of us brought that up last time. Right. So one thing we've talked about before, specifically in our episode about incanto, again, very different vibe from this show, but this is a different type of portrayal, I think, of intergenerational trauma and the way that gets trickled down from one generation to the next. Right. And so we're seeing Logan, the patriarch of this family, who I think meets criteria for what we would consider like a malignant narcissist. What do you think, Portia?

[07:04] Portia Pendleton: I think so.

[07:05] Dr. Katrina Furey: And we'll talk a little bit about narcissism. When we think about narcissism or narcissistic personality disorder, there's the way we kind of use it in our culture, like, oh, I'm such a narcissist. I love to take selfies, or things like that. But what it really means clinically is something different. The way I kind of think about it is people with narcissistic traits or narcissistic personality disorder have a really insecure sense of self. At the end of the day, that's sort of like the core wound, and they're constantly relying on external feedback and validation to boost themselves up and feel good. So, again, getting back to that black or white way of thinking and feeling, people with these traits have a really hard time sitting in that gray zone feeling good about themselves and remorseful for maybe things they've done simultaneously. It's really one or the other. And a lot of times these people put down everyone around them to keep themselves kind of up on a pedestal. Right.

[08:06] Portia Pendleton: And what better even way to do it than being the chairman of a board? You see it play out in his business role. You see it play out in his family, in personal relationships that seem to kind of go hand in hand with business. But wherever he goes, he is the best guy out there. Everyone wants to shake his hand. Everyone wants to know him. People are afraid of him. He just has so much power.

[08:29] Dr. Katrina Furey: So much power. And again, it might not come as a surprise that there is a high degree of people with narcissistic personality traits or disorder in positions of power. Right. That's how you get there. And there is some thought about even like a subtype of people with these personality traits as being high functioning and using that unconsciously, I'm pretty sure, to their advantage to get where they are. Right. So these are people who, like you said, like Logan, always has to be number one, always has to win, no matter the cost, has very superficial relationships personally and professionally, and really only sees people like his children, like his colleagues, as means to an end. So they're really like chess pieces that he's playing to get what he wants in the end. And we really see that unfolding in this season. And the way he manipulates and plays the kids off of each other for his own game, that's really painful for me to watch.

[09:27] Portia Pendleton: Yeah. I think it can make you have, like, a physical reaction. I mean, some of the things that he does with Kendall, I think specifically, it's like you almost think about it if you put it on paper, it's like, okay, this father is covering for his son, and it's like, okay, but.

[09:43] Dr. Katrina Furey: Why not the goodness of his heart? Because he loves him, to protect him, but because that's how he's going to get what he wants. Right. And you see that unfold in such a sick, sick way.

[09:55] Portia Pendleton: And you see Kendall throughout season two just really be a shell of himself. And I think, again, like, thinking of the narcissistic traits, it's like Kendall has lost his position of power entirely, I think. I thought it was so just like a really good scene where he comes back from making that TV appearance and he hits the nosebleed. He makes the TV appearance, then he goes back to New York and he holds the door for everyone, leaving a meeting. He's just standing there holding it, and no one's really saying thank you. And he would never do that before. Right.

[10:31] Dr. Katrina Furey: He's a less than.

[10:32] Portia Pendleton: He's nothing. And I just thought, like, wow, and.

[10:35] Dr. Katrina Furey: How quickly it can shift. I know, it really gives you chill.

[10:38] Portia Pendleton: It's hard to watch.

[10:40] Dr. Katrina Furey: And that's why I just think I wish I could interview the creators, the writers, the actors. Like, how did you guys get this so well? Because it flips on a dime for Logan. Right. And that is exactly how people with narcissistic personality disorder view people is. It flips on a dime depending on whether they're sort of on the good side of the split or the bad side of the split. And if they're doing what you want them to, then they're good, and you're showering them with attention, and if they're not, they're nothing. And that competitiveness between Logan and Kendall is just so intense. We really see that Logan, I think, is really threatened by Kendall, and yet Kendall just can't take it to the finish line. No, that's like his Achilles heel. He always gets, like, close and then it falls apart. Yeah.

[11:32] Portia Pendleton: And I think it's almost like his I thought Kendall was the character more intelligent right away in season one.

[11:44] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right.

[11:44] Portia Pendleton: Like, I thought that he was very, very smart.

[11:47] Dr. Katrina Furey: Like, he was the one who maybe had experience compared to, like, Roman and Shiva honor. But now you're like no, I mean.

[11:53] Portia Pendleton: Really, throughout this season, I was just, like, really surprised about how some of the decisions that he makes and I think even more in other seasons, maybe season three, he just came. Across in season one and two. At times, like, really poor at taking feedback while he's not being absolutely crushed by the guilt that he has. But he doesn't really seem that intelligent, actually, to me. Seems like he's just kind of makes decisions quickly. Another kind of narcissistic trait. You don't take feedback well. You don't like people telling you what to do. I think you need to to a degree, which I think Logan, in a way, has figured out a way to have the best of the best around him. And I think maybe he takes not feedback, but ideas from others and then claims them as his own.

[12:40] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yes, exactly.

[12:41] Portia Pendleton: And I don't think Kendall is smart enough to do that.

[12:44] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right. And so I think, again, narcissism is hard to break down. I think it can be hard to explain to people. It's really hard when you're relating to someone with these traits because you really feel like you're in the Twilight Zone and your sense of reality is so warped. And I feel like that just reflects the actual person with these traits sense of reality. But I guess the core features would be this sense of grandiosity, this sense of specialness uniqueness that you're kind of above everyone else and you can only associate with other special, unique people this excessive need for admiration, again, to sort of build up your own sense of self worth. Very superficial and exploitative relationships. People are really just objects, again, that you're moving around as a chess piece.

[13:28] Portia Pendleton: And we see that multiple times. Like season one, the baseball game, all the employees there when Kendall fires that whole falter.

[13:38] Dr. Katrina Furey: Exactly. And a true lack of empathy. However, some people with narcissistic traits, and I think Logan fits this, can display, like, fake empathy, where they make you sort of feel like they're understanding you, when really it's more like this data collection that they're figuring out who you are and what makes you tick in order to then use it against you later. And that's the kind of stuff that gives you the X and sends a chill down your spine. Some other pretty common features of narcissism that we see displayed in the various characters would be identity disturbance. Again, having a really unclear sense of themselves, really low self esteem and sort of their whole goal. I think we see this a lot with Kendall is sort of maintaining their status and really being concerned about the way other people's view them. We see that a lot, I think, in all of the characters. But I think especially with Logan, with kendall very hard time having authentic relationships or attachments. A real fear of dependency, which we see with all of these characters you talked about last time. Like, none of them can really have a secure relationship. I think we'll talk about that more with Roman and Jerry a little later. Chronic feelings of emptiness and boredom. I think we see that with Kendall and sort of even just relapsing and things like that. And then a lot of vulnerability with life transitions, which, again, sort of shakes up your sense of self, I think.

[15:08] Portia Pendleton: Too, with what I just find so interesting is so many of these traits, I feel like are almost in this specific situation or in this family are necessary to survive.

[15:20] Dr. Katrina Furey: Exactly.

[15:21] Portia Pendleton: And really a big piece of it is obviously the parental and the business sense, but also just like, their wealth. Right. So it's like everyone there's nothing they can do or want that they can't have.

[15:33] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right.

[15:33] Portia Pendleton: So it's like the emptiness and boredom. It's like, if you can have anything you want at any time, that's kind of boring.

[15:39] Dr. Katrina Furey: How do you get a dopamine rush? Right. It has to be a bigger and.

[15:42] Portia Pendleton: Bigger pushing the line. Pushing the line.

[15:45] Dr. Katrina Furey: Or fire a whole sector of a company and like, get off. Right, right.

[15:49] Portia Pendleton: That the issues with relationships. It's like people are using you. People are trying to get you to promote them or be your friend or invite them to something. So it's funny how this plays out interpersonally as well as internally for all of these family members. Because I wonder, just like, thinking in real life, how many people who are mega, mega, mega rich are just like in a narcissistic world, regardless if they have the traits or not. It's like you must develop them to survive, regardless of trauma, family, other narcissists in your life, it seems like. How do you not have it?

[16:26] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah, I think none of these characters can trust anyone on these characters. Like, not even the person you think you can or who you think is safe. They're all, like, manipulating and playing everyone against each other for their own gain. So you're right. It's like when you're Beyonce or some other billionaire or whoever. How do you trust anyone who's trying to come into your inner circle? How? I don't know.

[16:52] Portia Pendleton: Yeah, and I think if we write down the criteria, it's like, okay, well, then you're paranoid. It's like you're not paranoid. You're actually like, these things are real and happening. But I think what I think is sad is that these characters really don't seem to have anyone.

[17:07] Dr. Katrina Furey: Are you talking about the kids? Yeah, we keep calling them kids.

[17:10] Portia Pendleton: They're adults. They're probably older than us. So I don't know.

[17:17] Dr. Katrina Furey: But it's sad. It's so true. And we sort of sense that in season one, right, by not meeting mom until the very end. And then we really see that unfold. Like, these kids have really relied on their dad, who is so flawed. Right. So it sounds like Logan grew up in Scotland, at least for a period of time. We see him go back home in season two, and you see he has such a detached, cold relationship to his childhood home. Remember? I think they pull up and he's like, okay, done. I have no interest in going back. And then somewhere in there, they allude to the fact that I think his uncle actually raised him. And Ewan and their sister, who we still don't know what happened to her, but something tragic, it seems like. And it's somewhere along the way, ewan says to him, like, you have to stop blaming yourself for her death. So we don't really know what happened there, but I think an uncle raised them in the States. And then we see all those scars on his back, and Logan says to the kids, at some point, my uncle would beat me if I ever spoke to him the way you're speaking to me. And we see, like, there's physical evidence of that that's pretty severe. So that sort of gives you an idea of the world he was growing up in.

[18:34] Portia Pendleton: Because he did not grow up in this silver spoon.

[18:38] Dr. Katrina Furey: No. Somehow not at all. Right. He grew up, I think, in poverty, like in Scotland. And so somehow he has risen to this megawealth, mega position of power. And I think oftentimes when treating patients with narcissistic traits or narcissistic personality disorder, there is this early trauma history or these feelings of low self worth of being unworthy. And I think, like a lot of kids who grew up with a parent who's absent, whether it's physically absent, emotionally absent, what have you, will develop this inner sort of sense of themselves as being unlovable or not good enough or things like that. And that is sort of like the core wound that we see with narcissism. And so we sort of see that with Logan. And then now we see how he's relating to his own children, who, like, on paper, he's giving them everything.

[19:27] Portia Pendleton: Right. And that's also maybe why he almost like he doesn't understand that he's doing anything wrong.

[19:33] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right.

[19:33] Portia Pendleton: He's like you have everything. I so much better.

[19:36] Dr. Katrina Furey: Exactly.

[19:36] Portia Pendleton: How you know, I was being physically abused all the time? I only hit, you know, I only swapped you, or I only did this. It just seems like he has no awareness that he's doing a lot of.

[19:46] Dr. Katrina Furey: I think he's incapable of having that type of insight and being able to be like, yes, I'm doing all this good for them, and I am hurting them. I don't think he can see that in any way. I think, again, he would feel like his sense of self was totally annihilated, which is I think those are the moments that provoke his narcissistic rage or what we call in the field, like, narcissistic injury, when someone with these traits is, like, faced with criticism or their own deficiency, they explode. And we see that, like, when he slaps Roman, when he hits that little boy from season one. We see it all the time with him. And then later on, we see a lot of examples of gaslighting. Like, him and Roman are in the car and he's saying, like, did I even make contact with your face? And roman's like, I don't think so. And, like, I don't know. What did you think about that scene?

[20:40] Portia Pendleton: Yeah, total gaslighting. And you can just see how almost like, what a norm it is, right? I don't think it happens as common now, where it's like, there's such a big reaction. But all the kids reacted to it. They were all like, oh, my gosh, Roman, are you okay?

[20:56] Dr. Katrina Furey: And then Kendall jumped right in. They've done this before. Yes, exactly. So automatic.

[21:05] Portia Pendleton: And then I think Roman it seems really wounded, right? Like, there's a wound internally in the car. He kind of plays it off like it's not a big deal. And then they just kind of, like, go on their merry way. And those are the moments that I'm, like, so curious and would love to ask Roman because he appears flat, right? Just look at him. But what are you feeling right now? What are you thinking? What's going on?

[21:27] Dr. Katrina Furey: I don't even think he's connected to it. Right? I bet he's, like, so numb inside. I bet he's so numb because I think that's the role he's always played is the one who's getting hurt. Right? Like, we talked in season one about the whole dog cage thing, and then this happens. But then you see Kendall jump in and Kendall and Roman weren't, like, on good terms then, right? But they jump in. And again, I'm like, God, you got his so, right? Writers or actors or whoever's doing it. But then that's what fascinates me with the Roman and Jerry development. Right. We talked a little bit in our last episode about how it seems like Roman is impotent sexually. He can get it up, so to speak. He can't have sex with these women, which is interesting because he totally could given his position in society. He's classically good looking. He's wealthy. Right. You'd think that he'd have no problem getting a bunch of and I wonder.

[22:23] Portia Pendleton: When that first popped up. Has it always been that way, even as a teenager? Hormone raging boy? Or is this something that happened kind of at an older age? I don't know. I'm just, like, curious. Sexual dysfunction.

[22:38] Dr. Katrina Furey: And then so we see. I love how this show can introduce some humor along the way. So I loved when was it Jerry who told Roman, like, you know what would really impress your dad, Roman, is if you did the management training. Oh, yeah. Oh, my God. And then they send Roman to Texas or, like, some random place to do the management training program for the parks or something, right? And he's, like, watching the videos, and then he's in one of the videos for a second. Yeah, just for a second.

[23:07] Portia Pendleton: He's so mad. So mad.

[23:09] Dr. Katrina Furey: They cut out his park. But these are the kinds of, like this is, like, the kind of input he's probably received his whole life, just, like, how worthless he is. They can't even include whatever they told him to say, like, what he read from the cue card.

[23:27] Portia Pendleton: And then, again, a little sprinkle of comedy is with that guy, right, who they can get paired up with. And then, of course, they find out who the class finds out who Roman is because of that active shooter at ATN. And then they win, and Roman kind of, like, nods to it. He's like, well, did you think we won before? And the guy's like, yes, I think so. Naive and hopeful and such a good right. Juxtaposition of like, these are regular people, right? I think this was season one where Shiv gives the hand sanitizer to Gil. What are you doing? And she's like, oh. And she makes some kind of comment, really gross comment, and then she's kind of super taken aback, and then she quits, right? Because of the feedback. They're kind of demonstrating a little bit of disgust at her comment, and then she can't take it. She also wants to get in back with a star, right?

[24:28] Dr. Katrina Furey: And so she quits.

[24:29] Portia Pendleton: And then they kind of have this funny which also, Gail politics got to be a little narcissistic. They're, like, going back and forth at each other about like, well, I quit. Well, no, I fired you. It's just funny. And again, fits with what you were talking about with Narcissism.

[24:41] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right. So I just love how they just display these traits as being so pervasive. And that is how it is, right. With personality disorders, you're not having interpersonal conflict with one or two people. It's like everyone.

[24:58] Portia Pendleton: And that's why it's personality and not just like I am sure I have been, which makes me sad. I'm sure I've been cruel. I'm sure I've been angry. I'm sure I've been all these things. But that's not a pervasive personality trait.

[25:11] Dr. Katrina Furey: And the fact that it makes you sad is a really good sign for you that you're right. Because they can feel them both at the same time.

[25:20] Portia Pendleton: Exactly. So everything kind of circles around Logan, right. So we kind of broke down even the kids in the kind of classic right. Narcissistic family dynamic.

[25:29] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right. So usually and again, if you haven't listened to our episodes about the show, you please do, especially season two of you. I think we really get into the Narcissistic family structure of the Quinn family. I just love that show so much. But again, so we think of children of Narcissists. Again, these aren't like their own they're not viewed by Logan as their own humans. Right. With their own thoughts, their own beliefs, their own desires, their own wants, they're really viewed as extensions of himself. And in his eyes, the whole point of them being alive and around is to do his work for him, to get him what he wants. Right. And we see to make him feel good, to do something, to take over his business someday. But then we see how hard it is for him to actually appoint a successor or step back and give them the reins again. Because if he does that, who is he?

[26:20] Portia Pendleton: I was going to ask you, do you think thinking about season two, do you think he's going to kind of go out dead before he appoints a successor or do you think he will appoint a successor in or out of the family? Do you think he's capable of giving that up without a serious right. Medical, mental health?

[26:38] Dr. Katrina Furey: I don't think crisis.

[26:39] Portia Pendleton: I think he's going to go out in a body bag. I don't think he can give that away, especially because I think it's like his child really, it's like another child is a company.

[26:49] Dr. Katrina Furey: No, I don't think he can. I think we've seen that, like when he was planning the step away and appoint Kendall. He keeps coming, but he can't yeah, he can't do it. I feel like it was interesting. I agree with you. I don't think he actually is capable of that because then I think he's nothing. If he's not the top dog, no one's going to check on him. They're all coming to him because they will need something, want something from him. So he's nothing. And then his kids have the power above him. I also think this show is like a remarkable commentary on aging overall. And I think we could talk about that more another time. But what did you think of him appointing Reya and do you think there were ulterior motives there?

[27:31] Portia Pendleton: I think there was. I think that he appointed Reya. I mean, and again, like, after watching the end of season two, maybe in the moment didn't think this, but I think that he kind of appointed her to take the fall.

[27:41] Dr. Katrina Furey: I think so too.

[27:42] Portia Pendleton: Like solely. I think he kind of battered her up or buttered her up or battered.

[27:47] Dr. Katrina Furey: Both are goodies.

[27:56] Portia Pendleton: That's funny. So either one he did and I think at the same time it's so interesting because he's not going to do that publicly to his kids because then that would reflect poorly on him.

[28:11] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right.

[28:11] Portia Pendleton: So if he elected Siobhan at that time and then someone's got to go because of all the cruise line stuff, I don't think that that would look good on him. So I think he intentionally did someone outside the family, the Reya who's like this kind of consultant came in. I think he made her trust him. It seems like they had a sexual relationship because Marcia got really upset and made some. Pretty good comments. I thought with just, like, you, this was like, irreparable. Like, you hurt me, you broke something.

[28:38] Dr. Katrina Furey: But then it's like, I doubt that was the first time. No, but maybe they have an agreement or something. It seems like they do. Where she goes up to Ray is like, have you been tested? Yeah, this seemed a little maybe because I think Marsha thought she was going to take over. Remember at the very beginning, like, adjusting the trust so she got more votes. I think she was thinking she'd take over, and then now all of a sudden, it's this race.

[29:03] Portia Pendleton: It's almost like their agreement is something like, you don't miss business with pleasure. So Logan can have sexual relationships, but it's not with the CEO or it's.

[29:13] Dr. Katrina Furey: Got to be with your secretary. I think it's someone lower than you or a prostitute. You know what I mean?

[29:19] Portia Pendleton: Or it's just like something like that versus this other woman who exactly. Raya is like, really rivaling her versus just like yeah, whatever.

[29:29] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right. No, I think so too. I also think it was interesting that it was a woman who he eventually appointed to then take the fall for the cruise line stuff, which was a lot of sexual assault stuff. Right. I don't think that was a coincidental. No, I agree.

[29:44] Portia Pendleton: And then he brought more. He's Shivin at the time, he was kind of making promises to her. And again, I think it's like the Logan's smart. I mean, he made this business, so.

[29:56] Dr. Katrina Furey: He'S obviously intellectual and obviously he knew this was going on. Yeah. Right. He didn't not know. So he probably I feel like he's the kind of person who thinks and can see ten steps ahead, and that's probably why he got so successful. But then I think he was orchestrating the chess pieces just so and now that we're talking about it, I thought in the moment he was so reluctant to sort of announce that Shiv was going to be next in line because he didn't want to give up the power. But I wonder if he was trying to protect her, like knowing what was.

[30:26] Portia Pendleton: Coming, I think trying to protect her. Yes. And like the image.

[30:31] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right. Not actually her for her. He's awful to her. Yeah. But she also just keeps coming. But then you can come and be.

[30:39] Portia Pendleton: Like, oh, hey, pinky, and that's great.

[30:40] Dr. Katrina Furey: Wow.

[30:41] Portia Pendleton: In that moment, I feel like it's like right. The black and white, my head whips. Because it's like this cute again, it's all intentional, but it's this cute nickname. It's definitely like an endearing nickname back to childhood. And he doesn't have any nicknames for the other kids.

[30:57] Dr. Katrina Furey: Well, I guess he calls Roman Romulus.

[30:58] Portia Pendleton: Yeah, but I feel like that's like his full name.

[31:01] Dr. Katrina Furey: Or maybe that's also like a jab. Maybe that sounds like a fancy name, but Roman's, like, not really taken seriously. I don't know.

[31:10] Portia Pendleton: And then thinking about the forgotten child, Connor. So I think it's so ironic how they send him to go to the funeral for most lester yes.

[31:26] Dr. Katrina Furey: And the only way to get Daddy's attention is to run for president. Right. And he's really serious about this.

[31:32] Portia Pendleton: And so total grandiose, right?

[31:36] Dr. Katrina Furey: Totally. Delusion. Had a job ever. Yes. I mean, the grandiosity in narcissism is delusional. It reaches the level of delusion.

[31:46] Portia Pendleton: And then having a relationship that you're paying for again, that seems almost, like safe.

[31:51] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right?

[31:51] Portia Pendleton: Like, I can't get hurt. Like I'm paying this person. I'm also kind of keeping you a little bit at Arm's way.

[32:00] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right. All of the kids in different ways.

[32:03] Portia Pendleton: Because I think you don't think initially all the kids lined up next to each other. I'm not like Connor Narcissism, but he is so much so in a very different flavor.

[32:13] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yes. He's more of, like, what I would think of as like a covert, where it's not as obvious from the outset. Whereas overt narcissists are the loudest one in the room, throwing the parties, bragging about themselves. Those are the people that you can sort of get a read on pretty quickly. Whereas covert narcissists have that same sense of grandiosity, but it's hidden under a layer of self deprecation, sort of like failure to launch. Like not taking the opportunity because you think you'll fail or things like that, but really it's because you think you're so special. And I could see that with Connor. And then now he's like, okay, I'm going to run for president. He doesn't see why this is like an insane idea. And he even releases that video, remember?

[33:00] Portia Pendleton: Just can't and no one so it's like everyone around him well, they try.

[33:05] Dr. Katrina Furey: Like the siblings try to tell siblings do.

[33:07] Portia Pendleton: But these hires hired willa. He's paying her, so it's doing her play.

[33:14] Dr. Katrina Furey: Remember, Greg gets bit by all the sand. I loved it. But then he's, like, funneling so much money into her play, and then it doesn't get good reviews. Like, shocker. Then asking Daddy for more money, and it's just oh, it's sad. It's pathetic.

[33:32] Portia Pendleton: I really would love to know if Connor had any, like, what his relationship? If there is one with his mom, because I know that he doesn't have the same mom as Shiv, Roman and Kendall, but because he has that different flavor, it's like, why? Right. Did you live with your mom for a period of time?

[33:52] Dr. Katrina Furey: Do you have some sort of good connection? Right. I think it's clear that what's the other kid's mom's name? Caroline. Something like that.

[34:01] Portia Pendleton: I think so.

[34:01] Dr. Katrina Furey: Bad mom. Yeah. I hate to say it, but we also see that really sadly with Kendall in this season when he's like, again, Logan brings him to go talk to the family, like, oh, how disgusting and manipulative.

[34:15] Portia Pendleton: And not in like, we're taking account.

[34:18] Dr. Katrina Furey: Of like, this is good for you.

[34:21] Portia Pendleton: Don't forget.

[34:22] Dr. Katrina Furey: I know. Don't forget. Don't forget. Kendall. What I did for you. It's so sick. It's so sad. It really makes me sick. But then Kendall wants to talk to his mom about it, wants to tell someone and get some concern. And then her reaction is like, oh, it's getting late, can we talk about it tomorrow, Porsche?

[34:44] Portia Pendleton: And then total dismissal and she's gone to town. We ask ourselves and or clients and or friends who talk to us, it's like, why do you keep going back?

[34:53] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right? It's like the puppy who gets abused.

[34:55] Portia Pendleton: Like, why do you keep running back over there to get kicked again?

[34:58] Dr. Katrina Furey: The empty well, like you're just hoping.

[34:59] Portia Pendleton: There'S a little drop of and there isn't. And that's so painful to be rejected over and over and over again.

[35:06] Dr. Katrina Furey: But also it's so normal for a child to have a connection to their parents, however awful the parents are. Those are your parents. And so that eternal hope. This is what I try to tell my patients, is like, there's not anything wrong with you for having that. Of course you do.

[35:25] Portia Pendleton: Right.

[35:26] Dr. Katrina Furey: That's biological, evolutionary. You're supposed to be able to count on that. It is like, I think one of the most painful things when you're repeatedly reminded how much you can right. And we really saw that depicted and it's intense, so intense. But you're right. With Connor, I wonder if he had some sort of better relationship with his mom. I get the sense that maybe Logan was like really young when he had Connor or something and that maybe I wonder if I don't know if we'll ever learn, but this is my fantasy, is that Logan maybe I was going to say loved, but I don't think he's capable of true love. But maybe he really cared about Connor's mom but then was getting big and fancy and needed to be with a big and fancy person, like this fancy British woman.

[36:09] Portia Pendleton: So I think that could be true.

[36:11] Dr. Katrina Furey: But he left them, went with her. Maybe he got her money that helped infuse his business and grow. And I have a feeling that he wasn't around a lot for Connor. Like maybe saw him at Christmas or sent him presents or sent him money but wasn't really around. So I feel like the money is the only connection they have. Yeah, that's my fantasy.

[36:32] Portia Pendleton: Yeah, I think that's pretty accurate. I would love to know and I feel like not necessary, but I think.

[36:36] Dr. Katrina Furey: It would just be like an interesting story.

[36:38] Portia Pendleton: And then we see Logan kind of going back and forth with the other three here and there. This one's, the Golden Child at the moment. And that seems like they're always chasing that, right?

[36:49] Dr. Katrina Furey: So again, getting back to the Narcissistic family structure, you often think about golden Child scapegoat and then like the forgotten one and sometimes like a joker. So golden child is usually the one who reminds the Narcissist most of themselves. So it's like we think that's Kendall right?

[37:07] Portia Pendleton: I feel like it is even in season two, because I know there's two more seasons. I just feel like Kendall, he's been.

[37:16] Dr. Katrina Furey: Like, primed to take over. But then Logan gets threatened by that. And so then you're right. I think he is the golden child until he does something his dad doesn't agree with, which then he's nothing to do. Right. And then the scapegoat, I feel like a lot of the times is Roman or takes a fall. He's a goofball. He's just blamed for everything. He's kind of the joker to lighten the tension. And then Shiv, I think, is, like, forgotten. And a girl I really think that matters.

[37:49] Portia Pendleton: Being a girl is, like, the reason why we almost can't figure it out. Because I feel like Logan can't figure it out.

[37:55] Dr. Katrina Furey: I don't know how to relate to her unless she's like, a sexual object or I think that's how he's probably related to other women. So he doesn't know what to do with his daughter. I totally agree. Sometimes people with narcissistic personality disorder also display other personality disorder traits, like antisocial personality disorder, sadistic traits, paranoia, like, things like this. And we totally see that in Logan. Again, when we think of antisocial personality disorder, by that we don't mean, like, you don't like to socialize. That's not what we're talking about. We're talking about this ability to know the difference between right and wrong and doing wrong anyway. Because you get off on it. You get a thrill out of it. And so I think we sort of see all of that coalesce when they're at that awful hunting retreat again. Every episode, they're flying off to some new country, they're doing some new something. And all the crews going like, Jerry. I'm always like, Jerry, do you have a life or no, I think, yeah, right. Her life. That is her lifestar.

[39:03] Portia Pendleton: So it's like her, I think, just interesting thing of the women. So it's like, Jerry and then the woman who runs ATN, like, under Tom remember when Tom gets it? And she's like, yeah, you guys all come and go, but she seems like she's been there forever. Seems a little, like, rough and take it.

[39:17] Dr. Katrina Furey: But it's like the women who are running the show but get none of the credit. Right?

[39:21] Portia Pendleton: Yes. I always just think about I wonder what they're thinking of this. So at the retreat, first of all, like, hunting. And again, this is really sexist, but I don't think of hunting with females. And I know they do, and that's great and wonderful, but just as a generalization, it's like going on a hunting retreat.

[39:40] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right.

[39:41] Portia Pendleton: You might go to a spa right.

[39:42] Dr. Katrina Furey: Or something, or just have other activities to do.

[39:45] Portia Pendleton: It's like such a masculine we're going to kill animals.

[39:47] Dr. Katrina Furey: I know, but then didn't they go to, quote, unquote, hunt?

[39:52] Portia Pendleton: Then they all stand around and wait.

[39:54] Dr. Katrina Furey: Someone to drop the creatures from the sky.

[40:00] Portia Pendleton: We're surrounded by the people with the guns and it's just like this is so spot on. It makes me think of all the this is my personal opinion, people who go shoot beautiful animals in Africa and it's like you just paid a million dollars to have someone drive you to where they're keeping it corralled so you can shoot it and then bring it home.

[40:23] Dr. Katrina Furey: It's just disgusting and disgusting. But then it's just like so symbolic of like that is these kids lives. Like they have just been like, let go from the sky to be hunted, their dad, but then somewhere like in that retreat or whatever. What is that supposed to be? Team building? Yeah.

[40:47] Portia Pendleton: What we see goes down. I was like, this is honestly, in a way, it is team building because there's a trauma.

[40:54] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yes. Like trauma bond. Yes. You're so right. It's like, usually think of team building exercises as like, everyone gets a free donut and we're going to do trust falls. Right. And this is like Logan and you get your pen. This is logan's.

[41:08] Portia Pendleton: And it seems like again, I'm taking this as a norm. I think Logan's private. That guy, the security guy, who we see throughout all the seasons while they start and then we'll obviously get into this specific boar on the floor thing, but you see him kind of ushering the staff out.

[41:25] Dr. Katrina Furey: He shuts the door, he knows what to do. Exactly. And that to me, implies that Logan also knows that this is wrong. It's not like Logan's, like, reacting and then remorseful later. He has zero capability to feel remorse, this guy Logan. But yeah, the bore on the floor, my God, I guess Logan got tipped off that someone's maybe talking to some unauthorized biographer or something, and then he wants to know who it is. And so who were the people that he was, like, making get on the floor?

[41:54] Portia Pendleton: So Carl, Tom and Greg.

[41:56] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right. He was thinking like, it's got to be one of them. And so he has them all get on the floor and people are like, oinking at or he's asking them to oink or make pig noises and they're like throwing food at them, basically trying to humiliate them until the person fesses out.

[42:10] Portia Pendleton: Right.

[42:11] Dr. Katrina Furey: It was as sick as that baseball scene.

[42:15] Portia Pendleton: And then Roman, you see kind of filming and again, I feel like Roman is so injured to me that I'm not going to say he can do no wrong in my eyes, but I feel like I have such empathy for Roman that I personally can explain away. Even though he doesn't know horrible things.

[42:34] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yes. I think he has such a warp sense of world that he really doesn't know right or wrong. Right. And I think he's just so desperate for his dad's love that he'll do whatever his dad wants. His dad knows that and takes advantage of it. Right.

[42:48] Portia Pendleton: So Tom, Carl and Greg are kind of on the floor. Oinking. They're all trying to get the one sausage right. It's like whoever eats the sausage first or whatever wins. And what I just think was sad as they kind of switch back and forth between the scenes, is that Shiv is having sex with this guy. And again, they had a conversation, seemed one sided about having an open marriage, wedding.

[43:12] Dr. Katrina Furey: Again, time of life, transition. Not surprising that Shiv sense of self, someone with narcissistic traits herself, would be shaken up.

[43:22] Portia Pendleton: Right, exactly. So she's getting pleasured while Tom is being humiliated. So they initially think because Kendall wrestles the phone away from Roman, they think that Roman was the one who was talking to that other family. And that's kind of why the deal fell through. They ended up learning that it was mo.

[43:43] Dr. Katrina Furey: That's why he was upset was about the deal, was about the biography. That was something different. You're right. Yeah. And, man, season two really gets you feeling for Tom.

[43:51] Portia Pendleton: Yeah.

[43:52] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right. And I didn't like Tom at first, and then in this season, I really started to feel for him. There's some really intense scenes between him and Shiv, and near the end, he's like, Shiv, I'm really unhappy on our relationship. And you start to think like, oh, Tom really loves her, and she's not treating him well.

[44:10] Portia Pendleton: I think that Tom is a narcissist. However, he is not. And I think really, it's like, solely he is not the same kind of narcissist. And it's even like, he might have the same traits, but I think how I see him differently is I don't think he grew up like them. So it's like, I think he still is. I think he's, like, grandiose, and I think he injures other people. I think Greg does things to get one over another.

[44:35] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah. He does things to Greg that are done to him, and it's just like.

[44:39] Portia Pendleton: For whatever reason, it doesn't feel not as bad, but not as big to me. And that's why I think even season one, I thought he was funny. I kind of felt bad for him, even though he was being really horrible.

[44:51] Dr. Katrina Furey: Like, making people flip. Yeah, no, I see that, but right. Because I think he is from the Midwest. Right. But I think his mom's an attorney. So you think he grew up, like, fine.

[45:02] Portia Pendleton: I think he's not this went to a private school. I think he was in a fraternity.

[45:06] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right. I wonder if he I thought maybe this is my fantasy. Like, him and Shiv met in law school. I don't know if Shiv went to law school, but I could see her going to law school right. Or, like, being an English major, like something. And that's where they met, because I always am like, how did he get hooked up with Shiv? But I just have this sneaky feeling he's still a really bad guy, but he's fooling us all. I just have this feeling.

[45:30] Portia Pendleton: I think he's getting worse behind the scenes.

[45:33] Dr. Katrina Furey: As he's getting closer and closer more.

[45:37] Portia Pendleton: It'S like he's being wounded. So then he's now becoming in the family. So just like they were being wounded and that's why I think they're all horrible. He's now in that position, too, and I think that's why he gets worse and worse.

[45:52] Dr. Katrina Furey: So in an interesting way, it almost as you're saying that portia. It's making me think that Tom's character development parallels Logan's earlier character development or personality development that we didn't see, but how the person being abused becomes an abuser.

[46:09] Portia Pendleton: Right.

[46:10] Dr. Katrina Furey: I wonder if that's going to play out with Tom in future seasons, because definitely in this season, I really was really feeling for him. They're all so terrible to him. They're so insulting to him. They laugh at him. They really just put him down to, again, maintain their sense of superiority. And then we see him do that to Greg, who actually is closer to the family than he is. And I think that's part of why Greg's the target rather than, like, some random assistant who's unrelated to the family. I don't think that would feel as good to Tom to insult as someone who is connected. So I don't know. I'm really interested to see where things go with him.

[46:49] Portia Pendleton: It's like he's learning how to fit in with the family. So he's getting worse, but if it's not there to begin with, that's not going to happen. I think he already is a narcissist.

[47:00] Dr. Katrina Furey: But it's like he's getting a worse. That's a good point. Yeah. And I think he is so wounded and embarrassed, like, the way he behaved at that questioning thing where he really, like, such a buffoon. Yeah. So we can't wrap this episode up without exploring the Roman and Jerry twist. Like, I didn't see it coming until it was happening, and then I was like, oh, my God, this makes sense.

[47:28] Portia Pendleton: Yeah. I think it's like, in some ways so perfect.

[47:33] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right.

[47:33] Portia Pendleton: It's like so on paper, like, messed up and inappropriate for many reasons, even just because of the job itself. But I think it's like for him and what we kind of think of Romans borderline, this is it. He's with Jerry.

[47:50] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah. What we're referring to, if you don't remember, you haven't seen up until this point, roman again, is kind of impotent. Like, doesn't have sex with girls, can't perform that's become an issue in his relationships? It seems like all the siblings know and really make fun of him for it. And then all of a sudden you see him get aroused and ********** on the phone when Jerry is berating him for something. I don't even remember what, but, like, berating him. And I was like, is Jerry understanding what he's doing? I think she was. I don't think it was like, yeah.

[48:29] Portia Pendleton: Why do you think she did it? Why do you think she played along?

[48:32] Dr. Katrina Furey: So I think there's a clearly, again, Jerry as like an attachment figure for Roman and a sexual figure. She's older than him. She's maternal. They always joke about how he wants to pork his mom is, like the phrase they use. So there's something with that that I think is arousing to him. But also they can't get too close because she is kind of in the business kind of boss. But I think he's so used to being hurt by everyone, like the dad. I think that for him is all mixed up with pleasure. Just like with Logan, being sadistic and hurting others gets him off. I think for Roman, getting hurt gets him off. And I think his other romantic partners remember, even when he tried to have sex with that girlfriend, he wanted her to choke him or really, he wanted her to play dead like a corpse, remember? There's something really twisted there. And I feel like with Jerry, she's maternal.

[49:36] Portia Pendleton: I mean, like we said before, either.

[49:41] Dr. Katrina Furey: She feels like Tom to me, where, like, on the surface, you want to think they're kind of good, but then you're not if you've stayed involved this long. So I feel like she's manipulating him.

[49:51] Portia Pendleton: You know what I mean? I think in his sense of what a mom is, which is a horrible mom, I think she's, like, so much nicer, but it's like, well, she, in a way, has to be because she.

[50:03] Dr. Katrina Furey: Works for your father, right? So that kind of is like, your business, mommy. But so why does she go along with it? And she does go along with it. She keeps saying, like, stop. But she keeps going. Right? So she is participating consensually. Even if she's saying, Stop sending me **** pics or whatever, she's still doing it, I think, for her own power. I think she wants to be the top. And I feel like that's a way to manipulate him, to know what is Logan doing?

[50:38] Portia Pendleton: Because you have to think, like, she survived at Logan's right hand for what appears to be years. She's not new to this. She's not naive.

[50:50] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right. She wasn't so appalled by what happened at cruises. She's in it. And I think Logan and Roman roman will then go to Jerry to ask for advice. So I think it's also, like, a backdoor look into what's on Logan's mind if he's not telling her. So I think it's just like all manipulative and sick, but perfect. And there was a part of me that was like, could they be a couple?

[51:20] Portia Pendleton: And we'll see. It starts in season two, and we'll have to see what happens. Does it pick up? Does it get shut down? Like, what happens in season three?

[51:30] Dr. Katrina Furey: It's like I love to analyze my own reaction to this show because one big question I have is, like, why do I feel so bad for these kids? Why do I keep calling them kids when they're grown adults and they're all, like, pretty terrible, but I really feel empathy for them.

[51:45] Portia Pendleton: Why do I feel like I want Roman and Jerry to work?

[51:50] Dr. Katrina Furey: Why am I hopeful?

[51:52] Portia Pendleton: And I think, though, it's because typically, even as therapists and providers, we don't see the full family picture. We hear it from the patient's perspective, whether it's 100% accurate or not. And I think that we're seeing the entire family dynamic played out and we're seeing really the why. And I think that makes you be more empathetic.

[52:13] Dr. Katrina Furey: And I think the kids we're seeing.

[52:15] Portia Pendleton: Them be abused and kids are abused. I don't know. I think it's maybe that's how you.

[52:22] Dr. Katrina Furey: Feel so empathetic to Roman. I find myself, my empathy growing for Roman as it's Dwindling for Kendall, they're like inverting as the Seasons Go On. Maybe because we see him be slapped and abused and like, Kieran Culkin does such a good job portraying a victim of abuse. Totally agree with his eyes down. Just all of it. He seems like body language, but all of his body language around his dad, he does such a good job. He does such a good job. But yeah, I'm like rooting for Roman and Jerry, even though it's so messed up and I don't know why.

[52:58] Portia Pendleton: Yeah. And I think that's a great question, though, as two seasoned mental health professionals. It's like, why are we kind of it's the good writing.

[53:09] Dr. Katrina Furey: And why did we totally forget the scars on Roman's back last time? Right. It's because I think I don't want to feel empathy for Logan because he's so terrible. Oh, my gosh. Anything else for season two for us to wrap up? I don't think so.

[53:24] Portia Pendleton: I mean, I think we're going to kind of see where a couple of things go. So I'm waiting to kind of see what happens with Connor and Willa. He's forgotten, which is why I always forget about him. That's perfectly played out. But I think he's always an interesting lightener to the mood when he's on screen.

[53:45] Dr. Katrina Furey: He's just breezing in and out and.

[53:48] Portia Pendleton: Love that he is from the iconic Fair movie.

[53:52] Dr. Katrina Furey: And I love Willa's hair. She's so pretty, and her hair is just, like, so nice.

[53:57] Portia Pendleton: I think they're comedic relief. I think Greg is comedic relief. I'm curious to Greg again what being in this family, this does horrible family environment does to him. I think he grew up so poor, which is so ironic with his grandfather Yuan having still millions of dollars poor.

[54:14] Dr. Katrina Furey: I think he was like he's failure to lunch. I think his mom got sick of it. I don't think you okay, well, from related to standards, not like related to working.

[54:26] Portia Pendleton: And maybe they're divorced. I have no idea. Because we have a mom, but they're working.

[54:29] Dr. Katrina Furey: They have jobs and need their health insurance and stuff. Exactly. They're not in private helicopters. Right? Yeah.

[54:36] Portia Pendleton: So it's like he's kind of being pushed into this family and he seems very naive. I don't know if you think he is.

[54:44] Dr. Katrina Furey: I think, again, like Tom and Jerry, he can put on a show of being naive, but he has these moments where I think there's more going on, and I'm happy for him for it, but otherwise he'd be eaten up and spit out. Exactly.

[54:58] Portia Pendleton: So do you think that he's just like a survivalist or do you think that he is a narcissist? You know what I mean?

[55:06] Dr. Katrina Furey: I think he's like a covert narcissist. Like failure to launch. Remember he was supposed to be the mascot thing. He's, like, throwing up because he got too high. And then eventually his mom's like, I'm done helping you. You need to go. You have to figure it out. Yeah. I don't want him to be because I like him so much, but I think he is like, he holds onto those documents. I loved that scene in season two between him and Tom where Tom they're, like, talking and joking, but really Tom's like, so where are the documents? Greg's like, I'm never going to tell you. I think he's smart enough for stuff like that because we know he could just get out and eventually get this ginormous inheritance from Ewan. There's something about it that's keeping him involved, right? Like, he could go get a normal job and be fine and wait for his inheritance, but something about it's keeping him in.

[56:01] Portia Pendleton: Well, and I guess asking yourself, as the viewer, what would you do? You know what I mean? Like, if you were kind of sucked into this system but he's not level.

[56:13] Dr. Katrina Furey: Like, you have autonomy. You can walk away and would you.

[56:20] Portia Pendleton: DM us on the private jets? I think that's all very appealing for people for different reasons, and everyone has lines where I think they would get out or wouldn't. And I'm just curious to see does he have a line? Because I think that speaks more to what's innately in there versus I think anyone could get sucked up into something. But then what disgusts you? Then what? Where do you say?

[56:44] Dr. Katrina Furey: No.

[56:44] Portia Pendleton: No.

[56:45] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right. Exactly. So feel free to, like, DM us and let us know. What's your line? Yeah, it's hard to know.

[56:54] Portia Pendleton: Bore on the floor, the hitting the.

[56:57] Dr. Katrina Furey: Softball game and all the sexual assault and murder that occurred on the cruises and then covering it up.

[57:04] Portia Pendleton: It's pretty bad, right? Yeah.

[57:06] Dr. Katrina Furey: All right, well, tune in next week to hear us recap an oldie but a goodie the movie side effects, followed by season three of succession the following week. Find us on Instagram at Analyze Scripts and on TikTok at Analyze Scripts podcast. And I guess we'll see you next time.

[57:25] Portia Pendleton: Okay, thanks.

[57:26] Dr. Katrina Furey: Bye. This podcast and its contents are a copyright of Analyzed Scripts, all rights reserved. Any redistribution or reproduction of part or all of the contents in any form is prohibited unless you want to share it with your friends and rate review and. Subscribe, that's fine. All stories and characters discussed are fictional in nature. No identification with actual persons, living or deceased places, buildings or products is intended or should be inferred. This podcast is for entertainment purposes only. The podcast and its contents do not constitute professional mental health or medical advice. Listeners might consider consulting a mental health provider if they need assistance with any mental health problems or concerns. As always, please call 911 or go directly to your nearest emergency room for any psychiatric emergencies. Thanks for listening and see you next time.

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