In the 5th of our series, Ben and John explore the nuances between a shallow approach and a deeper approach in the context of both engaging with people and systems. We discuss the benefits of both approaches along with the pitfalls and how knowing where you are will aid decision making and getting a richer output . Neither is better than the other and the they are not mutually exclusive. Connecting with people and / or systems in the most appropriate way can leader to a richer experience for the benefit of all.